I went through the sticky thread on etiquette and didn't see this mentioned.
Last week at the Yuba River expedition there was a couple (man and wife) who jumped on a spot in the middle of the river that they had obviously fished before and hogged it for about 4 hours, switching off so as to monopolize the run. Near the end of the day a couple of our guys fished across from them, but fairly far away and he starts barking and insulting them.
Personally, I feel like hogging a good spot is really lousy etiquette especially if there are a lot of people fishing around you. We can disagree as to what constitutes hogging, but I think many of us will agree that 4 hours is overdoing it.
This issue bothers me even more that the crowding issue since in the latter most guys won't cross lines with you and I can still catch fish and might even enjoy a conversation with a likeable person. In the hogging situation, I don't even get a shot at it. Maybe it especially bothers me because I've seen too many guys in a steelhead or shad lineup with a drift into the bucket not catch fish yet hog the position for hours. A friend of mine calls people like that "washers" since they just take up space. IMO, it doesn't matter if you are catching or not, it just seems lousy and selfish. Isn't that what etiquette is all about: not acting like this?
What's interesting about what the guy is doing is if he knows anything about the yuba river he should know to 1), let the hole rest, you can consistently pull fish out of a hole all day but not if you continue to pound it without ever letting it rest, and 2), the yuba fish, in my mind, move around more than fish in most rivers, coverring a lot of water is the name of the game--a hatch can be an exception to this rule, but bugs will not hatch all day long.
__________________
all of a man's addictions end and begin when he learns to fly fish
I have mixed feelings on hogging a spot. On some rivers (east walker for example) if you give up a spot in the miracle mile on a saturday, there is a damn good chance you won't find another spot to fish above the bridge.
Also, if I'm CATCHING fish consistantly for four hours, i really don't see myself giving up a certain run, although I'm very willing to share.
What's the point in moving to a new spot if you're succeeding in exactly what you came to the river to do. Would be like giving up your front row seat at a concert to someone who slept in later than you
In a couple rivers in montana where there are certain areas that produce all of the fish, people will stack up and take turns fishing the run---much like spey casting, take a cast, then take a step down, and so on and so on until you make your way to the end of the run.
__________________
all of a man's addictions end and begin when he learns to fly fish
In a couple rivers in montana where there are certain areas that produce all of the fish, people will stack up and take turns fishing the run---much like spey casting, take a cast, then take a step down, and so on and so on until you make your way to the end of the run.
In a couple rivers in montana where there are certain areas that produce all of the fish, people will stack up and take turns fishing the run---much like spey casting, take a cast, then take a step down, and so on and so on until you make your way to the end of the run.
That is exactly how I used to fish the Yuba. Then hike back up to the top of the run and take a few steps into the river and do it again. Repeat as needed until the water is too deep or you no longer catch fish then move onto the next run.
My last trip to the Yuba found people with their feet cemented to one spot ALL DAY LONG. They probably caught a few fish ......emphasis on few. The problem was those people were scattered up and down each run. It became too big of a hassle, combined with the gun toting YSA? I finaly gave up on the river.
__________________
Winter eats heat the way darkness swallows light. The terrors of failed power and frozen stems are stymied with fire, smoke and white ash.
In a couple rivers in montana where there are certain areas that produce all of the fish, people will stack up and take turns fishing the run---much like spey casting, take a cast, then take a step down, and so on and so on until you make your way to the end of the run.
Drifter,
A decade ago, that is what we used to do on the Russian during shad season. It is a great way to allow everyone to a chance at the hot spot and also to cover different water. We all caught a lot of fish and it was great!
It seems like a lot of people just want to catch as many fish as possible and don't care about other folks' good times. I hope you keep an open mind about this. Not preaching here, but I've been there and now have a lot more fun sharing. At this point in my fly fishing saga, it isn't about just catching a lot of fish. (Although I do like catching fish)
Shoot, I'm with Rich, what's the fum of spending half a day in the same spot. There's too much river to see and water to fish. I find it way more interesting and challenging to fish different stretches of the river, especially the Yuba.
After awhile, you share your area and invite people who would like to fish the area to step in.
I have to agree with you guys (Bob and Rich) - it is really boring to camp out and throw the same cast time and time again (i.e., robofishing) and more fun to experience different types of water. However, in this case I am more interested in the moral dilemma of "hogging" and as in the previous thread "encroachment."
One of the great things about fishing is that it puts this kind of primitive sh$t right in your face. I can't throw stones since I've been guilty of all kinds of hogging and encroachment in the past. However, it has been a revelation of sorts seeing how much better and enjoyable fly fishing has become moving away from that.
Hogging a hole may seem bad, but as others have said if you are catching fish why move? Even if you are not catching fish most people think this may be the best spot to catch a fish. My theory is that if someone is fishing your spot it makes you explore the rest of the river or creek. In many situations I have found better fishing where others are not fishing. Again the most common etiquette followed by most fly fishers for all situations is that the person that is there first has the right to that hole and the area upstream or downstream from where they are fishing. That said on crowded fisheries I always ask which way people are fishing and if I can make casts anywhere close to another fisherperson. In all cases I have talked to people before barging in they have let me fish!!!
You can always look at it from this angle too; If you dont hook up within your first 10 drifts, chances are you are not going to hook up at all. The first few drifts are going to be your high percentage drifts. After a few passes your odds go way down of hooking up. That's not to say you might not "eventually" hook something but I like to stick with higher odds in my favor and keep moving. If you are out with a group of guys, like on the Yuba trip, it's always fun to give up a spot to one of your buds and let them flog the water. Share what's working for you, give them a fly that works and see what they can do.....
For me it's all about the comradery, I get just a pumped when a buddy hooks up.
You can always look at it from this angle too; If you dont hook up within your first 10 drifts, chances are you are not going to hook up at all. The first few drifts are going to be your high percentage drifts. After a few passes your odds go way down of hooking up. That's not to say you might not "eventually" hook something but I like to stick with higher odds in my favor and keep moving. If you are out with a group of guys, like on the Yuba trip, it's always fun to give up a spot to one of your buds and let them flog the water. Share what's working for you, give them a fly that works and see what they can do.....
For me it's all about the comradery, I get just a pumped when a buddy hooks up.
that is especially true on pocket water streams like the Pit. A dozen casts or so in each little pocket then move onto the next. Unless you want to find yourself hiking out of a canyon after dark it's best to keep moving anyway ;)
__________________
Winter eats heat the way darkness swallows light. The terrors of failed power and frozen stems are stymied with fire, smoke and white ash.
One thing to mention is that these people were old and their mobility was limited. Not too easy for them to navigate the banks of the Yuba. At the time, I was disgruntled about them hogging the hole, but ultimately, there's plenty of water that I can navigate to and fish that they wouldn't be able to.
It all makes sense now... With the last few comments it sounds like you ran into some members of YOA. YOA is a private club that owns all of the Upper Yuba.....
