How about this can we just ban littlewhippersnapper from ever posting again. Please!!!! You are the most annoying poster on this board and your screen name is absolutely shocking.

brian clemens · Senior Member

RE: Redds

65Westy · Veteran Member

I guess people who read the signs are more likely to take the information to heart. I've only been to the Creek one time before, in July more than 13 years ago. All I remember was that it was HOT, the creek was fast (no waders) and I heard rattlesnakes- so I left after a few casts.

I'll do my best to leave things as undisturbed as possible when I visit.

mx19 · Senior Member

I guess I really need to try hard to put on a redds 101 class this year........

For those that have not been , it goes something like this...Meet at the bridge ,have some donuts and coffee on my dime..Walk out to the water and observe some active spawning fish in a few locations...Talk about the cycle and habits of the spawners...Have a little lunch and get a guided tour of the creek and some great spots to fish year round .Pass on some fishing tips technics and any equipment setup...Wet some lines and make new friends.....

MX19

hobbs · Senior Member

I know I said I was done but I wanted to ask a few questions and get some confirmation on a few things. First, when did the DFG stop stocking the creek? I heard it was six years ago. And second, when did the zero limit regs go into affect? My understanding is that it was the beginning of this year.

So if this is accurate, its not surprising that the fish numbers have dwindled in recent years. Hopefully with the zero limit regs and continual efforts to educate and work on the creek the fishery will improve....even with it being open year round. In my mind, this IS option #3 and is the most likely to occur. If I am wrong and the fishery gets worse as a result of fisherman impact, then yes, the DFG should and most likely will close the creek in the winter.

So in closing, energy should be focused on the real problems, not C&R fly fisherman. These problems being hydrilla, NZ snails, siltation, irregular flows and poaching. Remain focused on these things as well as education of fishermen and the fishery WILL improve in the future.

-- Edited by hobbs on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 05:56:16 PM

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

DFG stopped stocking when they had that lawsuit on their hands. Like 2-3 years ago. It seems to me that you're in denial that you are hurting the fish. Why can't we focus on EVERYTHING that can cause harm to the fishery. It's not only fishing for spawners, but it's also the fishermen that are wading on the redds and crushing thousands of eggs.

-- Edited by LilWhippersnapper on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 06:29:55 PM

BENICE · Member

Come on guys. Seriously. When you finally think its all over, one person has to kick the dead horse just one more time. Not refering to you hobbs. Again how you take something isnt always how the person meant for it to sound. I needed to reread what was writen by hobbs twice. Not one time, thought it meant something completely different, then act like a fool and bashed him for what he said. He was just asking questions, and making a good statement, "That we should remain focused on education of the fisherman on the creek." It never came off that he is trying to defend himself. Dont know where the "your in denial" nonsence came from, but from all of us Can you PLEASE STOP.

Funny thing is he stated "So in closing, energy should be focused on the real problems, not C&R fly fisherman. These problems being hydrilla, NZ snails, siltation, irregular flows and poaching. Remain focused on these things as well as education of fishermen and the fishery WILL improve in the future."

Then you said "Why can't we focus on EVERYTHING that can cause harm to the fishery. It's not only fishing for spawners, but it's also the fishermen that are wading on the redds and crushing thousands of eggs."

You guys said the same thing just with different words.

-- Edited by BENICE on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 07:39:30 PM

SK60 · Senior Member

Hobbs said: "So in closing, energy should be focused on the real problems, not C&R fly fisherman. These problems being hydrilla, NZ snails, siltation, irregular flows and poaching. Remain focused on these things as well as education of fishermen and the fishery WILL improve in the future."

These are exactly the problems that Putah Creek Trout spends its time working on to find solutions.

Regarding planting, the last one occurred in September of 2008 when 10,000 fish were dumped into Lake Solano and at the resort. All of 2009, the wild fish paid the price of being the only taken targets. The online AS (angler surveys) indicated about two thirds of fish caught and released in 2008 were wild fish. In 2009 the reported catch fell off by 70% from the previous year. Data for 2010 has not been analyzed, but the catch rate is definitely way up from 2009, with most of the fish under 12 inches. So the preliminary data indicates that zero limit, catch and release has had a positive effect within the first year of the regulation change. Had PCT not worked very hard with DFG and FGC on getting this change passed I would very likely be reporting a different story and you wouldn't be thinking about fishing the Creek.

hobbs · Senior Member

BENICE wrote:

Come on guys. Seriously. When you finally think its all over, one person has to kick the dead horse just one more time. Not refering to you hobbs. Again how you take something isnt always how the person meant for it to sound. I needed to reread what was writen by hobbs twice. Not one time, thought it meant something completely different, then act like a fool and bashed him for what he said. He was just asking questions, and making a good statement, "That we should remain focused on education of the fisherman on the creek." It never came off that he is trying to defend himself. Dont know where the "your in denial" nonsence came from, but from all of us Can you PLEASE STOP.

Funny thing is he stated "So in closing, energy should be focused on the real problems, not C&R fly fisherman. These problems being hydrilla, NZ snails, siltation, irregular flows and poaching. Remain focused on these things as well as education of fishermen and the fishery WILL improve in the future."

Then you said "Why can't we focus on EVERYTHING that can cause harm to the fishery. It's not only fishing for spawners, but it's also the fishermen that are wading on the redds and crushing thousands of eggs."

You guys said the same thing just with different words.

-- Edited by BENICE on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 07:39:30 PM

Thanks Benice. However, I am defending myself and every other fisherman out there. Im not in denial either and I dont appreciate such comments. Im well aware that by fishing any body of water for any species of fish I am affecting that fish/fishery to some extent. This goes for all fishermen, all species and all fisheries.

I dont know where the flaw is in my reasoning when I say, "If the fishery continues to suffer into the future as a result of fishing then it should be closed. But if the fishery begins to improve thanks to the new regulations, sound education and the efforts of the PCT then why not let people have a quality winter trout fishing experience?"

It boils down to this, no longer are the fish in Putah Creek native. Some are wild, but none are native. This being said, the fish are there because of fishermen and are there for fisherman. The fishery is there to fish and enjoy in a responsible manner by all who have purchased a fishing license.

Also, there is a difference in what we said. My thought is to educate, his and a few others is to control and regulate. This is a big difference in mentality. Educate, educate, educate, and you will have fewer and fewer people, "...fishing for spawners..." and "...fishermen that are wading on the redds and crushing thousands of eggs."

So it continues then...Im perfectly OK giving the last word to someone else but not if it entails insults and bad reasoning.

-- Edited by hobbs on Thursday 16th of December 2010 12:11:18 AM

hobbs · Senior Member

SK60 wrote:

Hobbs said: "So in closing, energy should be focused on the real problems, not C&R fly fisherman. These problems being hydrilla, NZ snails, siltation, irregular flows and poaching. Remain focused on these things as well as education of fishermen and the fishery WILL improve in the future."

These are exactly the problems that Putah Creek Trout spends its time working on to find solutions.

Regarding planting, the last one occurred in September of 2008 when 10,000 fish were dumped into Lake Solano and at the resort. All of 2009, the wild fish paid the price of being the only taken targets. The online AS (angler surveys) indicated about two thirds of fish caught and released in 2008 were wild fish. In 2009 the reported catch fell off by 70% from the previous year. Data for 2010 has not been analyzed, but the catch rate is definitely way up from 2009, with most of the fish under 12 inches. So the preliminary data indicates that zero limit, catch and release has had a positive effect within the first year of the regulation change. Had PCT not worked very hard with DFG and FGC on getting this change passed I would very likely be reporting a different story and you wouldn't be thinking about fishing the Creek.

Thanks for the info, that does sound promising. And also as I have said many times over, thank you to the PCT! Myself and many other fishermen really appreciate your work and are thankful to have a great place to visit this time of year.

-- Edited by hobbs on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 10:16:50 PM

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

BENICE wrote:

Come on guys. Seriously. When you finally think its all over, one person has to kick the dead horse just one more time. Not refering to you hobbs. Again how you take something isnt always how the person meant for it to sound. I needed to reread what was writen by hobbs twice. Not one time, thought it meant something completely different, then act like a fool and bashed him for what he said. He was just asking questions, and making a good statement, "That we should remain focused on education of the fisherman on the creek." It never came off that he is trying to defend himself. Dont know where the "your in denial" nonsence came from, but from all of us Can you PLEASE STOP.

Funny thing is he stated "So in closing, energy should be focused on the real problems, not C&R fly fisherman. These problems being hydrilla, NZ snails, siltation, irregular flows and poaching. Remain focused on these things as well as education of fishermen and the fishery WILL improve in the future."

Then you said "Why can't we focus on EVERYTHING that can cause harm to the fishery. It's not only fishing for spawners, but it's also the fishermen that are wading on the redds and crushing thousands of eggs."

You guys said the same thing just with different words.

-- Edited by BENICE on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 07:39:30 PM

Benice, I don't even want to respond to you, cuz I know you're on here just to bash me. Oh, and Hobbs just proved to you that our points are different. Thankyou Hobbs. Lol, I beated the dead horse? Wasn't Hobbs the one that brought it up again? Maybe I'll go reread it a second time too... Yep he brought it up again.

Hobbs, when I said denial, I didn't mean it as bad as it sounds. So please don't take it personal. What I meant was that you don't think you're doing any harm by fishing this time of year, but you are. I am trying to educate on here. It's just that we have different views on fishing during the spawn. Which of course will cause arguements... I'm just a little more harsh, so don't take anything I say personal, cus I understand what you're trying to prove. I just don't agree with it. I agree with everything else you said though... Just not the "not C&R fly fisherman." part.

-- Edited by LilWhippersnapper on Thursday 16th of December 2010 02:28:38 AM

AfricanAngler · Senior Member

I know I said was over with this one ...but....

Can I please propose, unless it is the webmaster, that the next person to post on this thread be fed to the fish in Putah....... maybe that will help the fishery!! biggrin

mx19 · Senior Member

I guess Im chum....Mabe I will change my forum name from lame to fish food...

shon42073 · Senior Member

mx19 wrote:

I guess Im chum....Mabe I will change my forum name from lame to fish food...

Moldy chum !

hobbs · Senior Member

So I had a nice day fishing on Putah this week. Landed 6 fish between 9 and 12 inches. I observed some great spawning activity as well. I personally saw at least 20+ fish exhibiting spawning behavior...and this was below #1! If I saw that much spawning activity then there is way more going on that I didnt see. Also I talked to one fisherman who was very receptive and left a friendly note on another's windshield who was parked at the deer sign. Its amazing how receptive people are to a friendly fellow fisherman. Its hard to educate others and keep an eye out for illegal activity if you arent out there yourself. The fishermen make the fishery, its up to us to be responsible and educate others on the water. By the way, being "harsh" wont get you very far whether it be in person or online.

Again, if the fishery continues to diminish into the future then it should and will be closed during the winter by the DFG. However, if the fishery improves due to the new regs, continual education and the efforts of the PCT then keep it open and let fishermen enjoy their fishery. Its that simple. How does this not make sense?

Maybe Im just an optimist who loves to fish, but I feel that the second option is the most likely to occur....time will tell.

-- Edited by hobbs on Saturday 18th of December 2010 03:09:01 PM

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

you're very ignorant. I'll just leave it at that. Bring on the hate mail benice.

hobbs · Senior Member

LilWhippersnapper wrote:

you're very ignorant. I'll just leave it at that. Bring on the hate mail benice.

I wish you would explain why Im ignorant. Also, please explain why my reasoning doesnt make sense if you can. Im done repeating myself over and over. Yours and a few others attitudes will do way more harm than good for Putah and the sport of fly fishing.

65Westy · Veteran Member

hobbs wrote:

Yours and a few others attitudes will do way more harm than good for Putah and the sport of fly fishing.

"have done" not "will do."

I wouldn't bother trying get to the bottom of it Hobbs- just chaulk it up to youth and electronic machismo.

Fishing Putah solo seems to be the prefered method.

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

hobbs wrote:

I observed some great spawning activity as well. I personally saw at least 20+ fish exhibiting spawning behavior...and this was below #1! If I saw that much spawning activity then there is way more going on that I didnt see. Its hard to educate others and keep an eye out for illegal activity if you arent out there yourself. The fishermen make the fishery, its up to us to be responsible and educate others on the water.
Again, if the fishery continues to diminish into the future then it should and will be closed during the winter by the DFG.

-- Edited by hobbs on Saturday 18th of December 2010 03:09:01 PM

All of these statements are why you sir are very ignorant.

"If I saw that much spawning activity then there is way more going on that I didn't see"... Like right under your nose. Fish spawn in deeper water too and not only on tailouts.

"Its hard to educate others and keep an eye out for illegal activity if you arent out there yourself."...You say you are educating yet you are doing just as much harm as the guys on the redds.

"Again, if the fishery continues to diminish into the future then it should and will be closed during the winter by the DFG."...So we should wait until the fishery has completely gone down the drain? Key word you said was continue. That means it has been diminishing for quite some time, and I highly doubt it's because of our attitudes.

And the most ignorant comment of all? "the fishermen make the fishery, its up to us to be responsible and educate others on the water." This makes me laugh coming from you. The fishermen make the fishery... They also ruin it. Yes, we must be responsible, even you. If you were responsible then you would realize that you are harming the fish. I've seen you say the fishery is there for us to enjoy. Aren't you kind of contradicting yourself. So we should be responsible and take care of our fishery but that fishery is our right so we should enjoy it? I'm kinda confused...

So in conclusion, that is why your reasoning doesn't make sense. I wish you would explain why not wanting to fish the spawn will do more harm than good for the fishery?

Otter · Senior Member

Would you guys please stop attacking people!!! If Hobbs and any other educated fisherpeople want to fish the creek responsibly they should be able to. As he said the people you should be worried about are the people targeting the spawning fish and the people walking on the redds. Everyone on this board has fished this creek during the winter..... Merry Christmas and a Happy Beer filled New Year to you all!!!!

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

Otter wrote:

Would you guys please stop attacking people!!! If Hobbs and any other educated fisherpeople want to fish the creek responsibly they should be able to. As he said the people you should be worried about are the people targeting the spawning fish and the people walking on the redds. Everyone on this board has fished this creek during the winter..... Merry Christmas and a Happy Beer filled New Year to you all!!!!

The whole reason for this arguement is because he came on here attacking everyone that thinks Putah should be closed during the winter. I don't care what the subject is... When a new guy comes on and starts scolding the veterans, there is gonna be some hostility.

edog7 · Veteran Member

How about this can we just ban littlewhippersnapper from ever posting again. Please!!!! You are the most annoying poster on this board and your screen name is absolutely shocking.

EDOG

hobbs · Senior Member

I have fished the creek seven times now over the past six weeks. I dont target spawners and if I happen to catch a large fish I land it quickly, and release it carefully (like I do all fish). That "spawner" will likely have no trouble returning to its natural process and surely will not die. Also during my time on the creek Ive caught a couple dozen fish under 15 inches. So yes it is possible to fish and enjoy the creek responsibly. In addition, I never wade on anything that could be possible redds. I rock hop and stay on shore the majority of the time. So yes, if you are careful you can avoid smashing eggs. These are the things that we need to focus on sharing with fellow fishermen.

The reason the creek has suffered in the past is because of poor regs (ie. bait, barbs, etc.) up until a year ago, and the bag limit was five fish for crying-out-loud! Not to mention it hasnt been stocked in over two years. The creek WILL improve in years to come and C&R flyfishermen will be, and have been a big part of this. If it doesnt improve and the professionals at the DFG deem it necessary to close the creek during the winter then they will. I bet money this doesnt happen because I have faith that it will improve.

Like I said above, it is possible to fish Putah Creek and all waters for that matter and be responsible. All fishermen will have some form of impact on the waters and fish they catch. This is inevitable. But the question is, can that impact be kept to a minimum so that nature isnt significantly impacted while humans get out and enjoy nature? If you care and you are educated, then the answer is yes you can.

Educated, responsible catch and release flyfishermen are not the issue that detriments fisheries. They are the ones (all fishermen for that matter to an extent) who are responsible for even having fisheries like Putah and virtually all others today. So if you piss off and drive away the fishermen you wont have a fishery, or the DFG or the PCT or Trout Unlimited and on and on and on...

Do you get it? I doubt you do...Im not sure how else to explain these things. You dont attack others and say things to fellow fishermen like, "dont be a spawn chaser" or "if you care about the creek dont fish it" or "youre ignorant" or "in denial." This is not productive and will not help any fishery or the sport of flyfishing. Instead, you educate them in a friendly manner and make a good impression as a representative of the sport and a representative of the fishery...whether it be on a blog or in person. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, just please base that opinion on sound reasoning and express it in a thoughtful manner. It seems that you and a few others need to work on this.

Lastly, the only one "scolding" or "attacking" anyone is you and one or two others. Also, define "veteran" for me....Im a 20 year veteran of the sport, not some internet blog.

Please read this post carefully and try your best to comprehend what I keep repeating.

-- Edited by hobbs on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 12:22:45 AM

hobbs · Senior Member

LilWhippersnapper wrote:

So in conclusion, that is why your reasoning doesn't make sense. I wish you would explain why not wanting to fish the spawn will do more harm than good for the fishery?

_________________________________________________________

Its not about fishing the spawn! Somehow Im not being clear on this. All fish spawn, steelhead and salmon enter the rivers strictly to spawn. Its about regulating fishermen out of places to fish and pissing off fellow fishermen thus making them less receptive to education.

Putah Creek is the only good trout fishing for miles around and lots of people enjoy it, especially this time of year because its one of the few places that is open and because its more favorable to fish during the winter. These people buy fishing licenses (providing revenue for the DFG), support the fishing economy/community, they are members of organizations like PCT, TU and Cal-trout and hopefully they keep an eye out for real harmful activity while they're on the water, such as poaching.

The fishermen are the reason why Putah and many other fisheries exist today. If you continue to drive these people away with regulations and attitudes like yours and others, then the fisheries will suffer and the sport will suffer as well.

Educated, responsible fishermen are not the problem! They are the solution.

-- Edited by hobbs on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 12:11:53 AM

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

If everybody had our kind of attitude the creek would be better off. "More favorable to fish during the winter"... cuz that's when the big ones have moved up. I'm not calling you a spawn chaser, but you are fishing during the spawn. Many fish that aren't on redds are still in the spawning stage. The creek has been diminishing before they stopped planting it. Ask any veteran of Putah, and that's what I mean by veteran. You came on here and started slamming people for asking not to fish Putah. That is "attacking". Like what you did to Bono. That's how all this started, and it has just escalated.

"Educated, responsible fishermen are not the problem! They are the solution."
I agree, but they are the ones who know when to put there pride behind them and not fish.

You can't compare Putah to some big river with a salmon and steelhead run in the thousands.

This argument is gonna keep going and going cuz you're gonna keep saying the same thing. Your not repeating it because I'm not understanding. You're repeating it because you don't want to believe the truth, and the truth hurts. No one was regulating anybody from fishing. We were just asking, but you got really defensive because you know it's wrong.

BENICE · Member

Unbelievable. Look LWS, Im not the only one. So how do you like your hate mail now. You stated "Blah Blah arguement blah blah attacking everyone blah Putah blah closed during the winter. I don't care what the subject is...When a new guy comes on and starts scolding the veterans, there is gonna be some hostility." What the heck dude. Hobbs appologized for it and sucked up his pride. You dont do that, you ust delete your posts like a lil, I would rather not say on here. The only person still attacking people is you, you, and wait for it...............YOU. Cant agree more with Edog7. And otter stated it nicely as well. LWS why do you feel it necessary to be the one that sticks up for all the veterans, dont they have a say, cant they stick up for themselves, I would say we are all adults here, but I would be wrong. And the "there is going to be some hostility" would be considered as a threat. Ya not good, not smart, and once again childish. Here is a scenario, lets say Hobbs said something negotive or even attacked JVento or better yet Brian Clemens. Both are Vets, BC, from the posts Ive read, has done much to help in where Putah is today, what have you done, but talk smack to everyone. Oh ya nothing. Anyways we all know you and Hobbs would be best friends 4life, and you would be aiding and abeding his everyword, and probably repeating them too. Those 2 guys are veterans right, but seems from past posts you dont like either of them very much. Wonder what would happen if BC or JV stated the same thing that Edog7 or Otter just did. You would be on those 2 guys faster than flys on pooh. So you going to say something to Edog7 or Otter. We all know you wont. So what makes Edog or Otter different from BC or JV. Maybe you should figure out what side you are on LWS. Cuz you have officially gone rouge. And your words means nothing on here anymore. If you are going to bash one, you should be able to have the balls and bash everyone, but we know you dont.

brian clemens · Senior Member

Hey Hobbs dont forget about Stripers, Sturgeon and Shad, they all come up the rivers to spawn too, and we all fish for them. Difference is Stripers and Shad are top layers. They spawn in the top foot or so of water, and the water temps must be atleast 60 degs inorder to spawn successfully. Thats why in the late summer evenings and nights you see lots of surface activity from them.

hobbs · Senior Member

Listen, this is getting ridiculous. Its simple logic that you arent grasping Lil. If Putah improves then let people fish. If it gets worse for some reason then close it. Its that simple. It will improve and people will have an enjoyable, positive experience if we keep working and educating in a thoughtful manner.

I would have loved to see Putah when it was in its "prime" because in my eyes its pretty damn amazing right now. I have never seen fish like Im seeing in a small stream like Putah. And by the way its favorable this time of year because its not screwed up by ag releases and flowing at 600csf, not just becasue its the spawn.

Also if everyone had your attitude, people would hate flyfishermen and not care about what you have to say. Thankfully you seem to be in the minority. Words (whether written or spoken) should be used to educate and inform not control, regulate, insult and brow beat.

Its not yours or anyone else's right to "ask" others to not do something. This statement would have been a much better way to express the opinion, "I choose not to fish the creek this time of year because I dont want to interfere with the spawning process in any way. This is my personal choice but if others fish the creek all I ask is you be careful. Try not to wade through redds, try to avoid mature spawning fish, practice sound C&R and simply follow the regs..." If you and others would have said something like this then we wouldnt be having this ongoing discussion and I wouldnt have to keep repeating myself....but you DIDNT!

Oh, and thanks for brining up the Bono thing again. Yes in some ways it was out of line but it was also a true statement. When I first started posting, yes I'll admit I was a little fired up, but now Im simply trying to gain perspective and educate and turn this thread into what it should have been about in the first place. Its great you care about the creek so much, now take a step back and care a little more about your sport and your fellow fisherman.

-- Edited by hobbs on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 10:32:16 AM

Xnjb707X · Senior Member

If Putah Creek was closed in the winter time, not only would it improve the fishery, it would also end this thread. Just sayin...

65Westy · Veteran Member

Xnjb707X wrote:

If Putah Creek was closed in the winter time, not only would it improve the fishery, it would also end this thread. Just sayin...

How does staying open in the winter effect rivers such as the Merced and the Yuba?

Xnjb707X · Senior Member

Yuba rainbows don't spawn until march - early may, and above Highway20 bridge is closed for a few months to let the salmon spawn in peace. So winter time fishing shouldn't effect it too much. 'Cheers, this thread just went to page five. I think we can set a record here...