Redds

hobbs · Senior Member

RE: Redds

BENICE · Member

The Yuba is as well, you just have to keep an eye on Deer creek, it can muddy up the Yuba pretty fast. The feather and American are good bets to. Both are fishing nicely, swining on the AR has been doing well, but if you are a nympher for the steel, the both are in good steelhead spirits and will only get better. Its fishing nice right now. But the YUBA is where I would be. Well depending on this little front. Right now flows are coming down, it was blown out the other day. So who knows how tomorrow will be.

FYI Calvaras flows are at 25. I wouldnt go there.

In the winter its the American, Yuba, Moke opens Jan 1st, Stan opens Jan 1st, Feather in this area, if you want to drive a bit Lower Sac, Trinity, Russian, Garcia, Gualala. Just to name a few. The Truckee too in the winter.

-- Edited by BENICE on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 03:45:07 PM

hobbs · Senior Member

georgek wrote:

My point was that in order to avoid what happened to the lost coast rivers maybe fishing during the steelhead spawn should be looked a little more carefully.

Yes, highly unregulated fishing did play a huge role in the decline of coastal anadromous rivers. There were many other contributing factors as well though: improper logging that lead to siltation, commercial fishing, polution, squaw fish infestation and of course damn dams! But today there are very strict regulations and law abiding sport fisherman have very little impact. Unfortunately all the other things I mentioned persist today.

georgek · Veteran Member

hobbs wrote:

georgek wrote:

My point was that in order to avoid what happened to the lost coast rivers maybe fishing during the steelhead spawn should be looked a little more carefully.

Yes, highly unregulated fishing did play a huge role in the decline of coastal anadromous rivers. There were many other contributing factors as well though: improper logging that lead to siltation, commercial fishing, polution, squaw fish infestation and of course damn dams! But today there are very strict regulations and law abiding sport fisherman have very little impact. Unfortunately all the other things I mentioned persist today.

True. My intentions are simply to remind/ask people to follow proper catch and release techniques when fishing; especially over spawning fish.

CJ · Senior Member

Hey how did I wind up on the "kienes" message board??? Wait a second here....... disbelief

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

65Westy wrote:

BENICE wrote:

As One weight said there are other rivers that fish well this time of yr, the ones he stated are great, dont forget about the Calveras, another great small trout fishery. But the Yuba is where it is at.

-- Edited by BENICE on Wednesday 8th of December 2010 03:01:18 PM
I asked about the Calaveras a few days back with less then favorable replies.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=65954&p=3&topicID=39681498

I'm going regardless and I do thank the one person who actually had some advice for me.

We weren't lieing when we said it's not worth it. The creek is low and grassy... Makes for tough fishing and not many holes. If you don't mind fishing for stocked trout you should try Lake Amador. If you have a boat you can go back into Jackson Creek. They are stacked in there right now. We're talking 3-7 lbers. This rain is gonna muddy it up for a day or 2 though.

shon42073 · Senior Member

At one time not that long ago this board was a good place to ask questions and get or give advice on flyfishing. Now its just a big bitch session !!! Enough already. Shut up and go fishing !

ONEWEIGHT · Senior Member

I think this is just nature's annual prerequisite . . . there has to be a blow out at the beginning of spawn . . . I mean, it's as natural as the spawn itself! biggrin

We're all free to agree/ disagree with one another. As long as the situation does not take on a personalization avenue, good information from both sides of the equation can be floated about. The important direction is keeping it objective and friendly! I'm out.

Bob

hobbs · Senior Member

CJ wrote:

Hey how did I wind up on the "kienes" message board??? Wait a second here.......

Hey, I dont really understand what you wrote but i wanted to comment on your photo. Is that the Truckee?

65Westy · Veteran Member

LilWhippersnapper wrote:
We weren't lieing when we said it's not worth it. The creek is low and grassy... Makes for tough fishing and not many holes. If you don't mind fishing for stocked trout you should try Lake Amador. If you have a boat you can go back into Jackson Creek. They are stacked in there right now. We're talking 3-7 lbers. This rain is gonna muddy it up for a day or 2 though.

I'm going Christmas day since I'll be about 10 minutes away. I'm sure it sucks but it's an excuse to wet a line.

SK60 · Senior Member

Well now that this thread has calmed down for 5 min. there is one other aspect of fishing for or over spawning fish that is even more important (and hopefully less controversial). This is avoidance of wading in the area of the redds AFTER the eggs are present in the gravel. For up to six weeks after they are deposited, the eggs and alevins are susceptible to being crushed by your boots. Studies have shown that up to 90% mortality can result from careless wading. In Putah, redds are often used by different fish over several weeks time, so the susceptible period can extend into spring.

So please add this to your list of "don'ts": don't wade through any areas that you suspect contain redds and developing offspring.

kylebass91 · Veteran Member

I think its about time this thread gets locked... People are gonna fish the creek and for spawners regardless what anyone says. Its "legal" and that means they have every right to fish for them as much as everyone chooses NOT to fish them. Its not what I'd like to see or a lot of you but this is America and they arn't breaking any laws. So when I'm down there taking picture of the spawners and someones fishing, Im not gonna bitch and moan at them like I'm seeing here. Im going to ask hows the fishing cause again he has the same rights to be there as I do

stlhdr · Veteran Member

SK60 wrote:

Well now that this thread has calmed down for 5 min. there is one other aspect of fishing for or over spawning fish that is even more important (and hopefully less controversial). This is avoidance of wading in the area of the redds AFTER the eggs are present in the gravel. For up to six weeks after they are deposited, the eggs and alevins are susceptible to being crushed by your boots. Studies have shown that up to 90% mortality can result from careless wading. In Putah, redds are often used by different fish over several weeks time, so the susceptible period can extend into spring.

So please add this to your list of "don'ts": don't wade through any areas that you suspect contain redds and developing offspring.

It just seems obvious that closing the creek, at least above the lake, is the right answer....probably just reverting to the traditional trout season would make the most sense. I hope you guys can make that happen.

Bob said "For those people not familiar with the circumstances. Putah Creek is under Phase II evaluation as a candidate for inclusion into the DF&G Wild Trout Stream program."

What would inclusion into that program mean for the creek?

Thanks, Mike

SK60 · Senior Member

If Putah Creek attains Wild Trout status it will basically be under a management plan established by DFG that will protect and enhance the wild trout fishery. If you go to the HWTP page on the DFG website, you can find out a lot about the program:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/fish/Resources/WildTrout/index.asp

The status evaluation process is in stage two of three; one of the basic questions that needs to be answered: is there a sustainable wild trout population present? Some of the approaches to attaining this answer include:

-Quantify population status and trend
-Establish/review angler surveys
-Assess habitat & environmental issues
-Inform and work with stakeholders
-Set objectives and goals for management

If you have followed our PCT posts on this site, you will know that we have been working with DFG HWTP on the first four listed items above for the past three-plus years. A good deal of progress has been made, thanks to the relatively small number of selfless volunteers who have shared their time and talents to help bring this program forward. A lot of work is still to be done before FGC will make a decision.

-- Edited by SK60 on Thursday 9th of December 2010 11:36:43 AM

windknots · Senior Member

Based on location of the most redds in Putah DFG could close above access one during the spawn, below access 1 could still be open, single barbless artifiicial only fishing could still be available AND most spawning areas could be protected. Just my 2 cents

CJ · Senior Member

On another note go ahead and let some steelies or salmon back into Putah and watch it close yesterday. Bono has stated this many times. Careful what you wish for. Not to try and reel Greg in on this mess but it's true, you would solve your winter fishing problems right there. Never going to happen in my lifetime......

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

kylebass91 wrote:

I think its about time this thread gets locked... People are gonna fish the creek and for spawners regardless what anyone says. Its "legal" and that means they have every right to fish for them as much as everyone chooses NOT to fish them. Its not what I'd like to see or a lot of you but this is America and they arn't breaking any laws. So when I'm down there taking picture of the spawners and someones fishing, Im not gonna bitch and moan at them like I'm seeing here. Im going to ask hows the fishing cause again he has the same rights to be there as I do

Like Nic said earlier. Just because the state says it's ok doesn't mean it is. We the fishermen have to protect our fishery. This state is messed up as it is... Look what they're doing to the delta.

hobbs · Senior Member

windknots wrote:

Based on location of the most redds in Putah DFG could close above access one during the spawn, below access 1 could still be open, single barbless artifiicial only fishing could still be available AND most spawning areas could be protected. Just my 2 cents

This is the most sensible thing I have heard so far....or people could just make an effort to avoid fishing above #1. Also, I like what was said about wading through redds. I try my best to rock hop or stay on shore.

hobbs · Senior Member

LilWhippersnapper wrote:

kylebass91 wrote:

I think its about time this thread gets locked... People are gonna fish the creek and for spawners regardless what anyone says. Its "legal" and that means they have every right to fish for them as much as everyone chooses NOT to fish them. Its not what I'd like to see or a lot of you but this is America and they arn't breaking any laws. So when I'm down there taking picture of the spawners and someones fishing, Im not gonna bitch and moan at them like I'm seeing here. Im going to ask hows the fishing cause again he has the same rights to be there as I do

Like Nic said earlier. Just because the state says it's ok doesn't mean it is. We the fishermen have to protect our fishery. This state is messed up as it is... Look what they're doing to the delta.

If the fishery is being harmed into the future by allowing year round fishing than yes it should be closed during the spawn. But if the fishery begins to improve (which it should with the new regs) then why not let people have a great winter trout fishing experience? Fish mortality and poor reproduction numbers are the concerns right? If you use your head on the water this time of year and practice good C&R then these things shouldnt be an issue.

mx19 · Senior Member

I have done more to improve this years spawn in 3 short days on the water than it took me to speed read all this jibber jabber...I know PCT works hard, I would like to say thank you to those good folks who let there actions do all the talking....

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

hobbs wrote:

LilWhippersnapper wrote:

kylebass91 wrote:

I think its about time this thread gets locked... People are gonna fish the creek and for spawners regardless what anyone says. Its "legal" and that means they have every right to fish for them as much as everyone chooses NOT to fish them. Its not what I'd like to see or a lot of you but this is America and they arn't breaking any laws. So when I'm down there taking picture of the spawners and someones fishing, Im not gonna bitch and moan at them like I'm seeing here. Im going to ask hows the fishing cause again he has the same rights to be there as I do

Like Nic said earlier. Just because the state says it's ok doesn't mean it is. We the fishermen have to protect our fishery. This state is messed up as it is... Look what they're doing to the delta.

If the fishery is being harmed into the future by allowing year round fishing than yes it should be closed during the spawn. But if the fishery begins to improve (which it should with the new regs) then why not let people have a great winter trout fishing experience? Fish mortality and poor reproduction numbers are the concerns right? If you use your head on the water this time of year and practice good C&R then these things shouldnt be an issue.

I'm not sure if you understood what I was saying. I was talking about fishing for spawners. Kyle said since it's legal to fish for spawners we shouldn't have a problem with it when people pull fish off the redds. That was my response to his comment.

hobbs · Senior Member

All Im saying is that fishing during the spawn may not significantly detriment the fishery. If it does, the creek should be closed during the winter. This should be determined by the professionals at DFG.

This whole thread began by people saying to NOT FISH. The quote from the very first post was, "...if you care about the creek just flat out dont fish it..." Instead, this thread should have purely been about being careful around redds, not fishing to actively spawning fish, practicing sound C&R and simply following the regs. There is no room for this territorial surfer stuff on Putah or anywhere. This attitude only upsets people and makes them less receptive to friendly educational information.

Ive made my point many times over so I am officially done with this thread. Take what you want from all of this...I know that I'll be out on the creek the next few months educating others while legally and ethically enjoying this awesome winter trout fishery. Again, thanks to all those that have worked so hard to make Putah Cr what it is today (the change to zero limit regs in particular). Thank you.

-- Edited by hobbs on Monday 13th of December 2010 09:34:40 AM

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

I've been done with that part of the post for a while now. Again, my response was to Kyles remark about it being ok to fish for actual spawners that are on redds. It was not directed at you. I'm done with this thread as well. Just wanted to make sure you understood my last couple posts.

Xnjb707X · Senior Member

@ hobbs, FYI the past few years we have had threads like this one I started here. Proper C&R techniques, How to avoid redds, Don't fish redds, etc. I have seen a major decline in spawning fish in the past 10 years, and I see more and more irresponsible "FLY" fishermen on the creek in the winter time, more and more ever year. That is why I *AM* saying it's in everyone's best interest to not to fish the creek in the spawning season, don't get me wrong I used to fish the creek in the winter but I found it too much of a hassle to find a spot where the fish aren't spawning. Putah fish spawn in typical waters and in water you might not think a rainbow would (talking about 4ft and deeper water) Everyone knows there are redds below 3 too, so technically there are no "safe areas" where the fish aren't doing their business, some areas just have a few redds and some spots have alot. Once again this is just my thoughts on this matter, ignore it, respect it, or just do what you want. I hope one day the creek is only open in general season. PCT does a damn fine job doing what they do and they will continue to do so. If my statements offend anyone, or I may seem unfriendly of some sorts it doesn't bother me none. That's my final 2 cents. Get at me dog. -peace.

- Nic

mx19 · Senior Member

Here is the way I see it...This big fat Redds problem will be gone in a few years...The creek will be closed for the protection of the fish during spawn or the fish will all be gone and it wont be worth fishing....There is not an option #3, that's why we have a few people working hard to SAVE what is left . thank you putah creek trout. Everyone else is pissing in the wind....

bono · Master Fly Fishing Guide

Well put MX! I have read all of the posts and now that it seems to be coming to a close I guess its my turn to add my 2 cents,whatever its worth. I do still take people to the creek this time of year to fish the creek (90% of these flyfishing classes) but we're still fishing. Do I fish the creek myself anymore? The answer is no. During my time spent on the creek with clients I am constantly teaching and educating the folks I'm with about issues the creek has,hoping to raise more awareness and support for the creek. We never fish the spawners but will sometimes take a walk to where the redds are and just sit and watch for awhile. I will have to say that many years ago people used to stand in line to fish over the spawners but now I hardly ever see people even close to the redds.I truley believe that this forum has been a big part of that. Lastly even though I am still taking people to the creek during these months I still believe it would be beneficial to close it for a short period. I know it sounds contradictory but the way I see it the folks I take to the creek will go there anyway whether its with myself,with another guide or by themselves, if they go with me it helps my financial situation a bit (this site isnt free by the way) and I get 5 hours to gain another potential supporter of Putah and its issues . Nuff said. Thanks Bono

SK60 · Senior Member

PCT is glad to see that the annual battle of words is coming to a close. I believe this is the third consecutive year where the posts on the subject filled three pages. I do believe the educational content of these discussions has had a positive effect and that, at least for the first few weeks of winter fishing, fishing of redd areas seems to be down. Of course, the fact that there aren't any fish on the few redds seen may be a factor.

If you go, please help the DFG wild trout evaluation by completing a survey form, either at one of the ASB's or do it online on this forum. The online reports go straight to Roger Bloom and the HTWP program. If you do see spawning fish, write it down on the back of the paper form (where and when) or write it into the comment section on the online report.

Thanks to all that support PCT, in a small way or large: your help is crucial to a successful recovery of the fishery.

65Westy · Veteran Member

Is there signage at the creek or in the parking lots addressing the Redds issue?

I just signed up to this site a few weeks back and from what little time I have spent here I can say I've had both good and bad experiences with members here. One veteran member in particular has been very helpful and to him I am very appreciative. The other long standing members and their negative bullish comments will do little to convince anyone of the merits of their position; no matter how righteous it may be. It's pretty hard to find, at least for me, the negative side of a group that quick out of the gate. But whatever, it's the internet and everyone’s a bad ass when they have a keyboard in front of them. :)

Having signs up on the creek itself eliminates any attitude or surfer-like mentality BS that will turn off people whom you would want to get your message to in the first place. People who really like Putah and fish it regularly might be more willing to find a site like this but I doubt those are the folks that are causing the most damage to the creeks trout. I will be on the look-out for them myself.

Just my .02

ONEWEIGHT · Senior Member

Yes, we had some trout life cycle laminates made last year and posted both these signs as well as "Please Don't Fish the Spawners" signs posted at access points to redd areas along the creek.

I agree, in the the past far more people camped on the redds and targeted large spawning fish.

Bob

SK60 · Senior Member

Westy-about every other tree/signpost has signage (slight exaggeration for emphasis), either the regulations, warnings of the area being under active surveillance for illegal activity, or pointing out that fish are spawning in the area. From time to time Yolo County has gotten on our case for so many signs. Not surprisingly, we have to replace some of them, especially the regulation signs, fairly regularly.

Signage has its limitations-people don't read them or read them and then ignore them. PCT members do on the stream education whenever possible, including handing out business card size regulations which at least forces the individual to be aware there are special regulations (I'm referring in particular to those that may be bait fishing with barbed hooks).

PCT does work with DFG Enforcement on monitoring the Creek. Like every other area of the state, game warden presence is less than one would desire. We, as stakeholders, are responsible for providing them with whatever help we can. Anyone can call Cal-Tip or provide online information of suspected illegal activity-there's a link on this forum for that. If they don't have the resource to act on the information immediately, at least you've made the effort.