Well maybe I'm a cheap bastard but I just can't figure out why fly fishing gear is so expensive. From $50 fly boxes to $200 vests, we all know how expensive rods and reels can be. I would like to hear some of your comments. I'm thinking it's the culture, we'll save up and throw down the dough for this "fly fishing" thing. I've quickly become a fanatic. I started with a $35 rod&reel combo from Big 5 to 6 months later having 5 rods in the garage, 2 nets, 2 vests and a host of other accessories. Any time I come up with some extra cash, my first thought is, man, what else do I need for fly fishing? My brother asked me this question when we were at Scheels in Reno. He's a bait guy and fishes the delta for stripers and sturgeon. He was making fun of how much money I had to spend to get a decent new 3w outfit. Anyways, what do you guys think?
Maybe it's supply and demand ? I'd guess theres very little demand for fly fishing gear compared to other types of fishing gear so the price is going to be higher on items with little demand. Pretty much goes for anything. I believe alot of people get sucked into buying things they do not need. I rarely purchase anything other then an occasional leader, spool of tippet, or a few dry flys since I don't tie drys yet. I'll take my old beat up well used gear over new stuff any day.
Ty, I think you answered your own question. So long as you keep buying at these prices, they'll be happy to sell them too. I also think Bombay's has a valid point too. I know people, like McHellfire, who have everything and sometimes doubles and triples, from rock climbing to scuba, I see tons of crap just waiting to be bought up, and more expensive means better, right?
Ya, I guess we all probably look around and try and find a good deal. Nobody likes to feel like they got ripped off. Maybe my question is more like: Why is fly fishing gear more expensive than standard fishing gear? Is the technology that much more expensive in a $100 fly reel compared to a $40 spinning reel. It may sound like I'm complaining here but I've been more than willing to throw down tons of money so far. And maybe it's the fact that I'm pretty new to fly fishing, that I'm not used to the "sticker shock" of my new addiction.
Let's take the recreational fishing industry as a whole. Say it's a yard stick. The fly fishing industry only makes up three inches of it.
There are lots of reasons for the price differences, but the main reason is the economy of scale. I wouldn't be surprised if Shakespeare makes more Ugly Sticks in one month than Sage makes rods in a year. If Sage wanted to make a $100 Z-Axis, it would have to produce a gazillion units to lower the costs to hit that price point. Unfortunately the demand isn't there for that many units.
I fly fish for trout and gear fish for bass. I recently bought a TFO Finesse series 4wt for 180 bucks, which was the same price I bought my bass rod for which is a powell. I bought my fly reel for 100 bucks, which was the same price as my bass reel...Both mid end, but good reels. I know that bass fishing has a very high demand, so that kinda contradicts Bombay's theory that "little demand means more expensive". Every sporting equipment is expensive. I play ice hockey, and it can cost over 800 bucks to get all the gear needed.
Interesting question, I think part of it is the fact that it's a knowledge & skill based sport and people with neither are eager try to make up for that lack by spending a lot of money on equipment (I've been guilty of this one). It also makes for a "boutique" type of industry with lots of niches for small manufacturers for lots of gadgets and there are lots of fly fisherman with enough disposable income to keep the factories running.
You could turn this question around and ask what's the least amount of money it takes to outfit a successful fly fisherman? Do you really need top of the line equipment when what it really comes to can be as simple as dead-drifting a 2 dollar fly on the right river, at the right depth, and at the right time to get it in front of a willing fish?
If you (the rhetorical "you") were shouler to shoulder with a knowledgeable and skillful fly fisherman who was equiped with tools like nail clippers for trimming line, a 6 penny nail for tying knots, waders from Ace Hardware, an old fiberglass rod with a basic reel, etc, do you think you'd have a better chance of outfishing him because of a $600 graphite rod, $300 reel, and $200 vest?
Top of the line equipment certainly feels good, but it's a nice to have, not an essential.
-- Edited by windknots on Wednesday 19th of August 2009 06:39:25 PM
I've asked that same question thousands of times. I've been flyfishing for over 35 years and have seen a lot of fly shops go out of business. My conclusion is that fly shops have to have a healthy profit margin just to stay in business. Since I already have all of the basic equipment that I need, most of my purchases are fly materials, tippets and other small items. I've probably only bought two rods and two reels in the past ten years and one or two pair of waders. So, as far as I can tell, the retail fly fishing business is pretty tough to survive in.
windknots wrote:If you (the rhetorical "you") were shouler to shoulder with a knowledgeable and skillful fly fisherman who was equiped with tools like nail clippers for trimming line, a 6 penny nail for tying knots, waders from Ace Hardware, an old fiberglass rod with a basic reel, etc, do you think you'd have a better chance of outfishing him because of a $600 graphite rod, $300 reel, and $200 vest?
Top of the line equipment certainly feels good, but it's a nice to have, not an essential.
-- Edited by windknots on Wednesday 19th of August 2009 06:39:25 PM
I think you do have a better chance of landing a fish. You get what you pay for. A $600 rod can give you that extra casting distance when those fish are a little out of reach. Also, they are usually a lot lighter. A $300 dollar reel will give you that smoother drag, and also lighter. A 200 dollar vest will give you the potential to carry a lot more supplies with you, although I think you'd be crazy to pay 200 bucks for a vest.
I disagree, I think for not a lot of money you can get some great value. You rarely need that extra distance, most of the fish come from very close range and as long as your kit is balanced and appropriate for the conditons (i.e. rod size & line weight) you'll get plenty of distance. As for smooth drag it's a nice to have, but I can't think of one fish I lost because my drag wasn't smooth. They're lost because the line wrapped around my foot, or my thumb, or the butt of the rod, I tied a bad knot, didn't notice a nick in the line, or any number of reasons EXCEPT for not having a smooth drag. The nicer rods are certainly lighter, but that's more of a comfort thing and you pay a serious premium for it. I've broken my primary rod, walked back to the car, picked up my old clunker backup and proceeded to catch just as many fish as I was with my "A" rod, including the biggest fish of the year for me.
I'm all for having a nice kit and enjoying the performance of the gear, but when it comes to what is essential and what is just a nice to have, there is no shame in having lower end gear. How you use it is far more important than what kind of wacky techno marketing went behind a premium priced kit. And hey, frugal is "in".
I'm comparing a high priced gear to the 60 dollar combo outfit you can get from walmart. Of course you can get great gear in the 100's, which is not much money. You can't say most fish come from very close in... It depends on the river and differences in the currents. Sometimes you do have to cast pretty far. For me, comfortability is a big thing... At the end of the day your arm may be wore out from using a heavy rod, while the person with the light rod will still have a fresh arm which will allow for longer time on the water, which will allow for more fish. As for the reel, the worst thing that can happen to a fisherman is you get down to the water and your reel freezes up on you. Also, those cheap reels are usually not made as durable. One fall on a rock could mean the end of your fishing trip. Of course you can catch fish with a cheap walmart outfit, but in the long run, it's worth paying the extra for the better.
Yeah, there are limits to how cheap you can go, I wouldn't touch a Walmart kit, but these days if I had to buy a rod new I'd be looking hard at less expensive production rods. Back to the original topic, even an economy (i.e. metal parts, low end graphite) kit will be significantly more expensive than a nice spinning setup. It's a high mix, low volume kind of business. Retailers may start with a high gross margin but their fixed and variable costs leave little room for profit and many of them are probably losing money and struggling to survive in this economy, it's more a lifestyle choice than it is a career for most small shops even in the good times.
windknots wrote:Back to the original topic, even an economy (i.e. metal parts, low end graphite) kit will be significantly more expensive than a nice spinning setup.
A nice spinning setup is still gonna cost you 100-200 bucks.
It's like wine. In my opinion, there is almost no bottle of wine that is worth $50 or more... but plenty of these sell well enough that their makers don't hesitate to put the big price tag on them. Yeah, there is the small production thing, hand crafted, same for generations, etc... but is it really worth that much? A lot of people who are going to buy a bottle of wine think first how much they are going to pay for it, then start looking in that price range on the shelf - and choose one with a nice label. Just like pretty much any fly rod, a 2 bucks Chuck will do the job, if you know how to use it.
That being said, I rarely pay more than $20 or less than $5 for a bottle. There are excellent wines - that you may like better than many $50 bottles - at a resonable price. Just like for fly rods - and reels.
Cheers!
-- Edited by Bugger on Thursday 20th of August 2009 08:04:19 PM
I guess there are alot of other products out there that are comparable to this issue. My wife says her $200 jeans are "Waaaay more comfortable" than $60 gap jeans. I guess we should just be glad there are options out there.
I think having all that expensive equipment should result in an enjoyable day on the water because you won't be carrying all that heavy money in your pocket. Even if you get skunked , you will have a smile on your face.
Speaking of cheap gear. I took my wife to Hot Creek for her first time Fly Fishing. Rented a basic Reddington Rod, that retailed for around $115.00. She was catching pigs like it was the norm, and it's not just that it was Hot Creek either, because she did way better than anyone else within eyesite. So maybe it's also how you use the equipment at hand rather than a RL Winston for $700. The lesson here? Don't go fishing with your wife. Although, she was kind enough to explain to me how to properly land a fish, so.........
