Bringing "protection" to the water?

Ty · Senior Member

Bringing "protection" to the water?

vince · Senior Member

The protection I bring is a buddy and some wilderness medicine training I had last summer. I think the Wilderness First Responder certification goes a long way - further than a machete or handgun. Neither do much good once a person is bleeding out from a femoral artery laceration. That course (you can take it through Davis's Outdoor Adventures program) was the best money I've spent.

You can take it directly through a variety of organizations; the organization that taught the Davis group was Sierra Rescue.

just my two cents,
Vince

jvento · Senior Member

When we took our member trip to the private waters owned by UCD, someone saw a rattler within 20 yds of where we all went down to the river. So in other words, yes, they are out there. Snakes are all over the place, just remember to keep an eye and ear out, and watch your step. If you come across one (or hear one) stop moving and slowly locate the snake. If you can move in the opposite direction, do so. If you come right on top of the rattler, then don't move at all and let the snake move away from you. Sudden movements could instigate a strike.

As far as mountain lions and bears, I've never come across one while fishing but I'd recommend upon seeing them or fresh signs of them, leave them alone and get out of there. Better safe than sorry. Always more fish to catch somewhere else.

Protection wise, depends on what you have and what you want to carry. They do make super powered pepper spray which is referred to as bear spray. Personally, I like to carry a big knife with me. I'll avoid encounters at all costs, but if they choose to attack me, I'm going out fighting (personal choice, not recommended). The best thing is to actually get into the fetal position, cover your head and neck, and pray the animal loses interest.

Mountain Lions are rather timid animals and I would expect that if you were to encounter one, it would be in the dusk to evening hours. One thing to consider is the Mountain Lion's primary food... deer/antelope. During the Summer months, while the deer are in the back country, the mountain lions are also going to be in the back country. I'd think that you would be more likely to come across a mountain lion during the winter when all of their territory is snowed out and the deer have migrated back down the mountain.

-Jon

windknots · Senior Member

If you're seriously interested in reducing your risk of injury during a fishing trip you would completely drop the topic of bear and mountain lion encounters and focus on things like wearing your seat belt on the drive there, driving carefully, not leaving valuables in the car, and walking carefully so you don't twist an ankle. When compared to a car accident, break-in/theft, or injury from a slip or fall the likelihood of having to shoot something is infinitesimal and not even worth considering unless you KNOW you're going some place where you'll need it.

Even if you see a rattler you can simply avoid it.

If you want to take it to the next level of risk management you'd want to learn what kayakers need to know about entrapment, strainers, or hydraulics in case you were to fall in.

vince · Senior Member

Strainers freak me the f*** out.
Here is the wrong way to approach a strainer.
Here is a short talk about the correct way.

I can't believe that was Kirk Deeter going under... weird.

Ty · Senior Member

I guess there's no substitute for common sense. My wife made me sell my crotch rocket cuz it's too dangerous. Then when she came out to the river with me she found something wrong with fly fishing. Oh well. Seriously though, I'm always very cautious out there, I was just wanting to see how you guys deal with the unpredictability of the outdoors. Thanks fellas.

Packrat · Senior Member

Snakes are easy to avoid and will generally move off before your are even close to them. If you do see one or hear one, as mentioned above, stop, locate it and move away. I've had bear encounters in Yosemite while fishing, it's pretty unnerving but they will not bother you unless you threaten them and they are with cubs. I'm not even sure if there has ever been a black bear on human attack in Yosemite. There are certain places in the Sierra foothills that I will carry a gun if I'm fishing alone, (ie meth heads) but for the most part leave it at home, much easier to avoid that situation. I think mountain lions are the least of the worries out there but that doesn't mean to always use your head.....

JMO32 · Senior Member

I almost stepped on a rattler this weekend on the east carson. Was walking when I heard the rattle...I stopped looked around and it was sitting under a rock just downhill of me. I knew they were out there, but that was the first time I had seen one.

Stainers are very avoidable....just pack the toilet paper. Ooops you said strainers, never mind then.

-- Edited by JMO32 on Thursday 9th of July 2009 11:19:04 PM

SK60 · Senior Member

Here's a local resident of the cold creek entrance to PC. Guessing 3-4 ft with 10 sets of rattles nicely camoflauged and quietly resting in the rock pile, saw it on Wednesday July 9 as we were taking our Grand daughters down to the creek for a wade (we went elsewhere)

RippenLips · Senior Member

And you didnt kill it?!?!? only good rattlesnake is a dead rattlesnake.

SK60 · Senior Member

Didn't have a way to get at it and I wanted to get the granddaughter's away.

jvento · Senior Member

"And you didnt kill it?!?!? only good rattlesnake is a dead rattlesnake."

Rattlesnakes are an important part of the ecosystem. Get rid of them and you are going to have a whole other mess of problems. Best thing to do is just leave them alone.

-Jon

P.S. they are tasty though

RippenLips · Senior Member

Jvento.... The rattlesnake population is in no way shape or form threatened, and if anything by killing the ones you come across would only help out the next kid/dog/person from potentially having a life changing and potentially carreer ending bite. There is enough harmless snakes out there and other animals that would have no problem keeping the rodent population under control. By just leaving them alone you are giving them the oppratunity for there population to rise thus putting more people in jeopardy every summer. With around 8,000 venomous bites per year killing ones you come across is no big deal.

jvento · Senior Member

We are encroaching onto their territory, not vice versa. Kill them if you want, but I wont. I'll just watch my step. don't get bit trying to senselessly kill them ;) My step dad did and almost lost his arm.

-Jon

flyfishingjunkie · Veteran Member

I think the best advice is to be careful driving to your destination and have some basic survival skills. The driving savely is obvious. I think most serious incidents in the wild occur iwhen people get lost or injured. Having some basic survival gear such as a lighter, first aid kid, knife, some string/rope, water or filter and some emergency blanket (the aerospace onces) and some food (granola bars), will increase your overall safety far more than packing heat.

As for rattlers most of the time they are harmless, they have no interest in striking and waisting their venom, hence their warning system the rattle. Always amazed me that an animal without the sense of hearing good evolve that way

The only person I personally know that got bit by a rattler, stepped on one in his kitchen in Los Gatos.

As for larger animals, bear and mountain lions, as long as you make a lot of noise it should not be a problem. They really don't like humans. But if you encounter one, never run, their reflex would be to go for the kill. Make yourself bigger, like lifting a jacket over your head, and slowly back away.

As for human encounters, that is a different topic all together, but no need to sweat the critters.

live2fish888 · Senior Member

another great way to avoid being attacked by a bear or mountain lion is to simply bring along someone that you can outrun! biggrin

Ty · Senior Member

That's what my wife was worried about. She's rehabbing a torn ACL and can't run well yet especially on a rocky riverbed. That was an ongoing joke. She kept asking me, "what if we see a bear?" I just told her that she would have to out run me and she'd be ok.

drifter · Senior Member

about black bears..........i am no F&G biologist but this is from ample experience. I have probably seen close to a 100 black bears, many within 20 yards (deer hunting, fishing, etc.), and I have yet to have even think about acting aggressive. most of the time they will run away or tumble down a hill, every once in a while you will get a curious one that will just stare at you. Really, you shouldn't be concerned with black bears (which can also be brown in color). Just dont sleep with an ice chest in your tent, and you will be ok. However, in the event that you encounter some ravid deranged bear i agree 100% with the comments above about not running away, standing your ground, etc..

It's the mountain lions that scare me, I've been stalked/followed by one before (thought it was a deer on a ridge just above me, heard it walking along side me for a couple hundred yards and when it never showed its face i walked up there to check it out, sure enough, there were cat tracks.) rattlesnakes and mountain lions are not my fav.

"Cougars", on the other hand, are a different story. I've been stalked by one or two of those before as well, although both encounters had a happy ending. smile

WT · Senior Member

Well put drifter... I would also add that other people (meth heads, crack whores, people growing dope... never have come across such a thing but I always wonder what will happen if I did one of these times, hippies, ect.) I sometime run into on the river scare me more than some of the bears, snakes and other creatures which are out there...

the big j · Veteran Member

Just my two cents. If you see a bear, chill and enjoy the moment, because he probably doesn't see or smell you and will carry on with his business, which can be quite animated. I, like Drifter, have seen as many as I have my own hand and never had they been aggressive, I even caught one once with a no harm trap we made and the thing cowwered at us, and whimpered. Sweat them when you see a mother and cubs though!!!!!!!! Thats the one exception to the rule I've seen. I wouldn't recommend shouting or throwing stuff, as the mothers see this as provocation. Just quietly move the opposite direction, she's not gonna ditch her cubs over that.
The big Cats are the thing I worry about, if at all. Then there's tweekers, naked Hippies, IRS, and Speedos

lightfoot · Senior Member

I think along the lines of Drifter. Between biologist work on the Sequoia, Mt. Hood and Tahoe NF, and fishing/hunting/hiking/camping adventures I've seen at least 300 bears inside of 100 yards and many a LOT closer than that. Charged by a sow with a cub, stalked, camps raided (while in camp) and vehicles torn into. Usually though, when you see a bear the thing that really stands out is the pads of their feet as they run the other way. I like seeing bears and consider an encounter a bonus to whatever adventure I'm on.

Too many snake encounters to talk about. Not hearing very well doesn't help that cause so I just try to keep my eyes open. I see one, they get a slug or big rock if possible.

Being followed by a mountain lion while hiking a trail at night was interesting as well. To date I have only seen five. It is the ones that I didn't know about that worry me, SSS

.45acp works well on people.

mx19 · Senior Member

I went fishing on the creek with richard hardwood ....he was digging through his fanny pack and out fell a small sealed packet.Iam pretty sure he was packing some protection...I snugged up my wader belt extra tight just to be a bit on the safe side....

DrBombay · Senior Member

Theres more to fear here in the city then there is out in the woods. Normally I only feel the need to have a gun with me at night in my tent, That would be a 12 gauge loaded with alternating 00 buck and slugs on one side and berreta 9mm model 92f on the other with a 15 round magazine(screw you california gun laws). The wilderness can be an intimidating place until you spend alot of time in it.

Shon42073.