Rattlesnake venom's basic function is to begin digestion of a meal, though it makes for a killer defense. This is why you see such trauma to the bite area. I'm surprised the snake at that size and age even released venom, as again its primary function is to assist in digestion. Its my understanding that the younger ones release out of inexperience with their mouths and the older one's bite to ward off trouble. Perhaps the hands body warm alluded to a rat or other food source, as snakes have awful eye site and rely on there tongue's sense of temperature, pressure, etc.
I remember reading in training manuals that snake bites are only venomous about 20% of the time, unless as mentioned, they are young.

-- Edited by the big j on Monday 6th of April 2009 04:29:51 PM

wow, that is unbelievable... i never knew a snake bite could be so severe. i wont even try to get near a rattle snake now...

ive seen snakes there not too many but they are there...ive been fishin putash for over 20 years and have yet to be feasted on by ticks but they are there...now about the poison oak thing...i get that probably 400 times a year lol it sucks...i got it already once this year but contained it...my buddy gotit on his eye and looked like a prize fighter....the negatives are there but keep ur eyes open...myself? it doesnt matter if i keep my eyes open or not...i can just think about poison oak and get it....

Lyme disease is pretty rare though here in N. Cal, no? I've spent some time in Connecticut (a few towns over from Lyme, Connecticut) and that's the only place I worry significantly about ticks.

Regarding rattlesnake bites... don't ever apply a tourniquet. This is a sure way to lose a limb. The Sawyer Extraction Kit is likely the most effective out of the bunch, but some studies have shown that it's not as effective as advertised. In the WFR course I took recently the instructor said that it's only really effective in the first five seconds after the bite. Given how fast blood circulates, this makes sense.

The only good first aid device for snakebite is the car keys--get to the emergency room as quickly as you safely can.  About 50% of rattlesnake bites are "dry," that is, no venom is injected.  It stands to reason--venom is the only device the snake has for securing prey, and the snake is capable of regulating what it injects so it tends not to inject large quantities into critters it can't eat.  Armed with that knowledge, the attending physician can wait for a little while and see if symptoms develop in the frightened person who just presented at the ER.  If they don't, no harm done and about the only treatment necessary is tetanus prophylaxis (like other mouths the snake's mouth has some nasty microbes inside).  If mild symptoms develop the physician will usually wait awhile and see if they increase or decrease in severity.  If severe symptoms develop (they're unmistakeable), the only definitive treatment is antivenin administered intravenously, and quickly.  That's a job for the ER doc, and it's complicated because antivenin is made in horses and many people are severely allergic to horses.  The doc has to find out if you're sensitized to horse serum and if you are the doc has to balance the potential problems of treating you with antivenin versus the potential problems of not treating you and trying to manage the envenomation with less specific measures.  First bottom line: any "first aid" measure other than the car keys (ice, ligatures, tourniquets, cut and suck, even the much vaunted Sawyer extracter that has been found to be ineffective) is either useless or worse than useless and could result in amputations or impaired limb function so skip the first aid and get to the hospital.  Second bottom line: it is far better to avoid the bite than to be treated for snakebite so avoid the bite.  In snake country (and rattlers are very common in Putah Canyon during April and May), watch where you put your hands, don't sit where you can't see, stay out of dense grass and brush, no rock climbing, and when the sun goes down use a flashlight to find your way out.  Third bottom line:  snakebite is very rare even in the careless so worry about more common deadly things like driving to the creek and back.  But be careful anyway.

Sean Barry
(Longtime herpetologist, almost as longtime fly fisherman)

I'm not sure how true this is but I've read that rattlers and poison oak are very rare above the 6,000 foot elevation mark. Anyone come across either at high elevation ? I've seen one on the silver fork but i don't recall the elevation there 5500 maybe ?

-- Edited by shon42073 on Thursday 9th of April 2009 03:33:12 PM

-- Edited by shon42073 on Thursday 9th of April 2009 03:33:49 PM

Well you got me thinking so I looked it up. That was a mistake. One site said 1/3 to 1/2 and then another site said 2/3. You just have to love the value of information available online.

I do recall the snake handling demo I had gone to now. It was in Arizona in like 1985 or around that time. I believe that the 1/3  that sticks in my mind is because the demo person stated it. As you can imagine, seeing him in an enclosure with a chit-load of them kinda burn't his words into my head.

My personal rule of thumb while hunting them was to poke into holes and turn over stones from as great a distance as was possible. Of course followed by a nice .357 CCI round to the head when they stuck it out there to be had. So for heavens sake don't quote me for distance for your own safety.

Here's the link to the 1/3 to 1/2    http://www.alongtheway.org/rattlesnakes/close.html

And here's the link to the 2/3
http://www.mountainhomenews.com/blogs/1269/entry/21928/

I'm only going to guess here that it likely depends on the type of rattler you are dealing with since there are 16 different varieties of which I seem to remember that 7 are native to Calif.
http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/rattle/snakes.html
 
Jer

I think there is a kaiser hospital in vacaville.

shon42073 wrote:

---

I'm not sure how true this is but I've read that rattlers and poison oak are very rare above the 6,000 foot elevation mark. Anyone come across either at high elevation ? I've seen one on the silver fork but i don't recall the elevation there 5500 maybe ?

-- Edited by shon42073 on Thursday 9th of April 2009 03:33:12 PM

-- Edited by shon42073 on Thursday 9th of April 2009 03:33:49 PM

---

I haven't seen one myself up that high, but they definitely exist that high and higher...

http://www.extension.org/pages/Rattlesnakes

-Jon

 

A couple of more points:

Rattlesnakes have been recorded in southern California up to 10,500 feet.  Its true that they're pretty scarce that high up though.

 

The percent of its body length that a snake can strike is a pretty meaningless statistic, partly because it's impossible to measure (what if the snake isn't in the mood to strike that far today?) but mostly because if you know the snake is there and yet you approach it so close that it could bite you it's definitely not the snake's fault if it does, and you get the "foolish" award for the year. It's also the very rare rattlesnake that bites a human when it has the choice not to. Most bites happen because the snake is being or "feeling" threatened by this hulking 180 pound creature on two legs and the snake would rather you stay away because its back and innards are very vulnerable to being stepped on and crushed. Who can blame the snake for defending itself, and for that matter what usually happens to rattlesnakes that humans do find?

 

Again, there are thousands of rattlers in Putah Canyon and the Vaca Hills in the spring, and tens of thousands of human visitors.  In all of recorded history there have been maybe five rattlesnake bites in all of Putah Canyon and the Vaca Hills (and no fatalities), but on the other hand there have been dozens of fatal auto accidents, quite a few drownings, and a number of murders.  It seems that we're afraid of the wrong species but rattlesnakes aren't.

Sean Barry

-- Edited by sjbarry on Friday 10th of April 2009 04:06:04 PM

-- Edited by sjbarry on Friday 10th of April 2009 04:08:12 PM

-- Edited by sjbarry on Friday 10th of April 2009 04:09:53 PM

all this talk of snakes gives me the willies i was on the other side wednesday just busting through the brush .holy s  ive allready had my three free passes with snakes  realy close calls. The first time by the time it rang out with the rattel they do it was already between my legs during stride when i looked down to see it striking but i kid you not i moved my leg out of the way  swear to god scouts honer. I still cant belive it but it happend but that was down in a place called azusa canyon anyone else have any simular stories 

I fish on the club section of the Yuba up above the bridge with a friend during the summer evenings during the caddis hatches.  We always fish until dark, and use our headlamps on the trail back up to the truck, well, at least my friend always has his headlamp.  It wasn't until he decided to walk supper fast ahead of me one evening, leaving me to scale the hill in the pich dark, my direction guided only by the sounds of a rattle-snake, that i decided to ALWAYS bring a light.....if it wasn't for the size of the fish, i don't think i would ever fish way up top during the summer.....I HATE rattlesnakes.  

Okay Rgloft, I got one.
Out on the Forks of the Little Kern, fishing for Goldens. Bear in mind, this was before I fly fished, and was camping, fishing to eat really.
So I'm on a nice boulder above a holding spot of Goldens. I tie monofilament to my finger, small hook w/ salmon egg, small spit shot, toss into the water and just flat out laid down to snooze.
In my mellowed out state, time passing in bliss, I began to think to myself, "You know, If I were a snake, on this rock, at this time of day, I be stoked. Just a perfect day to be sunning on this rock." HHMMMM, this would be a good spot wouldn't it.!!!! So as I slowly look up to see my surroundings, thinking I'm being paranoid, Sure AS S*#!T, A nice fat chillin rattler. Just sitting there looking at me, like, "Nice day isn't it".

A nice roll over the boulder, into the water and thats how I said, Yes and goodbye.