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Post Info TOPIC: California's stocked trout


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California's stocked trout
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Taken from the SFGate.com written by Tom Stienstra.



On a magic morning at San Pablo Reservoir, for years the best fishing lake in the Bay Area, we caught 10 rainbow trout that weighed nearly 30 pounds, one of the finest two-angler trout limits I've ever seen. That will never happen again.





Then there was the summer day at Loch Lomond Reservoir near Ben Lomond in the Santa Cruz Mountains. We caught several trout, then landed our boat on an island with a picnic site and barbecued the fish on the spot. What a moment. Now it looks like Loch Lomond is done forever.
Up in the Sierra, on a stormy, late spring day at Spicer Meadows Reservoir in the high country, we caught something like 35 to 40 trout ranging 14 to 22 inches in three hours. Now it's goodbye Spicer.
Try to imagine the early-summer flyfishing out of a canoe at pretty Gumboot Lake in the Trinity Divide, casting black leeches, strip retrieve, and catching a trout on nearly every cast in the last two hours of light. Must have released 30 or so. It will never happen again.
San Pablo, Loch Lomond, Spicer Meadows and Gumboot are among 175 lakes and streams in California that will no longer receive trout plants thanks to a lawsuit settlement this past week between the Department of Fish and Game and environmentalists.
The Center for Biological Diversity sued the DFG mainly to protect frogs and pollywogs, charging that fish can't be stocked without the DFG completing an Environmental Impact Report. Even though the DFG has stocked many of the lakes for generations, it's over now at many of the best. The ban takes effect immediately.
In the Bay Area, the DFG halted trout stocks at Bon Tempe, Lagunitas and Alpine lakes in Marin, and Stevens Creek Reservoir near Monta Vista on the south peninsula. That means from Novato in north Marin on south to San Jose, the only lake left with fishing is troubled Lake Merced in San Francisco, where trout plants and fishing under the San Francisco Recreation and Parks Department has deteriorated to a joke.
According to the DFG, this settlement was the best it could hope for after the Center for Biological Diversity and Pacific Rivers Council sued the DFG in October of 2006. The Stanford Environmental Law Clinic represented the enviros and argued in Superior Court that the DFG should be required to complete an Environmental Impact Report for each lake or stream before the DFG could be permitted to plant trout at any of them.
That threatened to stop all trout plants, said Jordan Traverso, DFG deputy director.
"We actually were pleased with the negotiations," Traverso said. "When we got into court Nov. 7, we were told to work something out or stop the plants."
The DFG did not choose the list of lakes and streams where plants will be stopped, she said. Rather a list of parameters was put in place. The presence of any of 27 species, most prominently, frogs and tadpoles, the size of the lake, whether it was a reservoir or natural lake, and whether it was connected to rivers, determined if it was blacklisted, Traverso said.
CEQA the hammer

"The premise in the original lawsuit was that our trout planting program was not compliant to CEQA (California Environmental Quality Act), that we had not undergone an EIR (Environmental Impact Report) for each lake," Traverso said. "That means the department is required to create an environmental impact report for something that has been going on for more than 100 years."
On the surface, the cutbacks are intended to protect frogs and pollywogs, which trout occasionally feed on. But several state and federal scientists told me that the ban on trout plants will do nothing to increase frog populations.
Traverso acknowledged that. "There could be a million other factors (with frogs and pollywogs) that have nothing to do with fish stocking," she said.
At a wilderness lake in the Humphrey Basin in the high Sierra, all trout in the lake were netted out and killed to protect endangered frogs. Yet all of the frogs died anyway the following year, killed by chitrid fungus, according to Roland Knapp of the Sierra Nevada Research Laboratory. "It's a mystery and we don't know who the real bad guy is," Knapp said at the time. Although Knapp is a proponent of eliminating trout, he admitted that the trout had nothing to do with all the frogs disappearing at the test lake in the Humphrey Basin.
Noah Greenwald, program director for the Center for Biological Diversity, lead party of the lawsuit, issued this statement in regard to his victory to stop plants at 175 lakes and streams: "Interim measures limiting stocking are needed to help save California's native fish and frogs from extinction." He didn't return a phone call. I wanted to ask him how many of the 175 lakes and streams being blacklisted has he actually been to.
Impacts widespread

The scope of the plant shutdown is stunning in some areas.
It includes: Lake Amador, one of the best trout lakes in the Sacramento Valley foothills; Taylor Lake in the Russian Wilderness, the only wheelchair-accessible wilderness lake with trout fishing in the state; Ice House Reservoir, the sensational fishing lake in the Crystal Basin; and the Yuba River along Highway 49, one of the best trout streams in the Sierra.
An example of how the shutdown could devastate an area's economy is the Highway 4 corridor, where pretty Alpine Lake, Mosquito Lake and Spicer Meadows provide the only lakes with fishing. Stocking trout will be stopped at all three, leaving roughly a 100-mile range across the Sierra that runs from Angels Camp through Murphys, Arnold, Dorrington and Bear Valley, with no lake to fish.
At this point, with the highest-priced fishing license in the nation, the only DFG response that would make sense would be to immediately increase stocks wherever they are permitted. By law, one-third of all fishing license money is required to go to the DFG trout program, which would roughly double stocks at the lakes on the "OK list" if finally implemented.
At the same time, the success of this lawsuit by environmental factions should throw a scare into all who fish or hunt. With the same premise, that an EIR is required before fish are stocked or hunting is permitted, a similar lawsuit could shut down virtually any fishing or hunting program.
No stocks

Notable lakes and streams that will not be stocked in the future include (north to south):
Bay-Delta region: Contra Costa County: Lafayette Res., San Pablo Res.; Marin County: Alpine Lake, Bon Tempe Res., Lagunitas Lake; Napa County: Lake Hennessey; Santa Clara County: Cottonwood Lake, Coyote Res., Lexington Res., Stevens Creek Res.; Santa Cruz County: Loch Lomond Res.; Solano County: Putah Creek, Lake Solano.
North Central region: Alpine County: Alpine Lake, Upper Blue Lake, Carson River (both East Fork and West Fork), Mosquito Lake, Silver Creek, Spicer Meadows Res., Union Res. Amador County: Lake Amador, Bear River Res., Mokelumne River. Butte County: Paradise Res., Thermalito Forebay.
Calaveras County: White Pines Lake; Colusa County: Letts Lake. El Dorado County: American River, both Silver Fork and South Fork; Echo Lakes, Ice House Res., Jenkinson Lake, Stumpy Meadows Res., Taylor Creek, Wrights Lake. Glenn County: Plaskett Meadow Pond.
Lake County: Upper Blue Lake, Cache Creek, Indian Valley Res., Lake Pillsbury. Nevada County: Boca Res., Bowman Lake, Donner Lake, Lyons Lake, Martis Creek Res., Prosser Res. Rollins Lake, Scott Flat Lake, Lake Spaulding; Placer County: Sugar Pine Res., Truckee River. Plumas County: Antelope Lake, Middle Fork and North Fork Feather River, Jamison Creek, Spanish Creek. Sacramento County: Lake Natoma. Sierra County: Little Truckee River, Yuba River.
Northern region: Humboldt County: Freshwater Lagoon. Siskiyou County: Castle Lake, Dobkins Lake, Gumboot Lake, Big Han**** Lake, Sky High Lakes, Taylor Lake, Toad Lake, Paradise Lake, many others in Trinity Alps, Russian and Marble Mountain Wilderness areas. Trinity County: Boulder Lake, Bull Lake, Grizzly Lake, Tamarack Lake. Lassen County: Ash Creek. Modoc County: South Fork Pit River.
Central region: Kern County: Kern River. Tulare County: Kaweah River, lower Kern River. Tuolumne County: South Fork Stanislaus River.
Eastern Sierra: Inyo County: Pine Creek. Mono/Madera County: Sotcher Lake.
Complete list: Go to dfg.ca.gov, then click on news item in far right column.
- Tom Stienstra

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I got an idea for this guy, go catch some wild trout...Also, Lake Amador has their own hatchery, so they don't need DFG to plant their lake... DFG only planted Amador like twice a year anyways.

-- Edited by LilWhippersnapper at 09:42, 2008-12-02

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Thanks, ptown, for the post.  This one lawsuit is going to have tremendous impact in the short term. Hopefully a reasonable amphibian protection program can be worked out that allows plants to take place in appropriate locations.

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LilWhip-I agree about Amador--At $19 to float, they don't need the DFG plants.  People go there for the 2-5 pounders...

SK60-Yes, one lawsuit will have a tremendous impact on local businesses in the Sierra.  I'll bring it up again about Hwy. 4 corridor: White Pines (off the list) schedules club/community events around the stocking schedule (Opening Day and Father's Day Derby)--which bring in dollars for the immediate Arnold economy.  Alpine is the closest thing to Hwy. 108's Pinecrest with a store, cabin/resort, restaurant, etc.   I imagine other corridors are facing the same noose.

Thanks for sharing ptown.

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think the downieville/sierra city businesses are going to see a MAJOR pounding.  Its unbelievable how many people fish the NF of the yuba for those planters.  I rarely ever see any of those camp cites empty......that will change

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-- Edited by ptown fishing at 16:31, 2008-12-02

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there is an entire discussion on your question (hmmm there was a questin there?) under the Putah Creek Trout Organization Forum.



-- Edited by drifter at 16:37, 2008-12-02

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Here is the link to the DFG stocking list http://dfg.ca.gov/news/stocking/.
Putah creek is on the cut list.

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This is sad for trout fishing in general. Although catching a native trout is always a lot of fun. Catching fish in general is a lot of fun! I think every one who enjoys fishing and the outdoors needs to really take heed to this article. DFG is the first to stop stocking programs, privately stocked lakes and programs are next. EIR's are freakin' expensive and the hippies who brought this lawsuit know this. Any attack on the fisheries that we use, whether it be Westlands Water Project or The Center for biological Diversity and Pacific Rivers Council needs to be brought to the forefront. Besides who's to say that the bass population in some of these lakes isn't eating the polywogs!!! The polywogs died anyway!!!

ptown fishing... Thanks for sharing!

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It sounds to like the perfect time for Putah to become a catch and release fly fishing only water.

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I am surprised DFG rolled over and did not appeal the ruling.  However, I suspect the current status of the state budget makes filing and arguing an appeal unattractive to DFG.  Or perhaps, DFG may have simply viewed the ruling as an opportunity to abandon the stocking programs and leave someone else with the blame.

In any case, if you really want to see a return of the stocking program its time to write your state assembly and senate representative requesting a legislative amendment to CEQA.  Specifically, a statuatory exemption from CEQA for DFG fish stocking activities.  Otherwise, forget about it...EIRs run in the $100's of thousands and it would be cost prohibitive to prepare one for each body of water.  Not to mention the EIRs would likely be subject to further litigation costing even more money.

-- Edited by SCM at 21:12, 2008-12-02

-- Edited by SCM at 21:13, 2008-12-02

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Question?  I saw that Lake Salono and Putah creek are on the list.  I have caught some fish in the creek that I guess were hatchery fish although they fought and had size like some of the natives.  Was this just a hold over hatchery fish from the previous years that had started to take on native qualities.  I guess my question is if a rainbow was planted in Solano and was not caught for a couple years it would put on a lot of size and would try and spawn in the creek?correct?  So are some of these trout that are spawning actually holdover planted rainbows?  Does anyone know the answer to this?  If this is the case would the lack of stocking hurt putah then?

         Edog

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From what I've heard, there are no native rainbows in putah...So I'm guessing the wild trout got there from stockers that have spawned.

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Right,  Lilwhippersnapper native (historically present) is unlikely, unless they are derived from steel head present prior to diversion dam being built. Wild if born and raised in the creek. Holdover planters can add to the gene pool. They some times can be IDed by their fins, which are usually damaged in the hatchery. They do grow back, but the rays are then often crooked.

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many of you guys believe that wild trout are self sustaining in most or all waters and thats just not true, many of the wild trout caught in putah arent even wild trout but are stock trout that have held over and aclimated to the envirement many will grow back the rubbed off fins. Many of the wild trout are the result of stock trout that survive and spawn successfully. By losing the stocking program here and in many other places you may be signing the death warrant for the fishery in its entirety. We are not talking about native trout but wild trout which are two different fish entirely.

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i dont know about you gudawg, but i havent caught to many hold overs, but the ones that i have caught you can definitly tell that they are planters, you can tell the difference between a 19" hold over and a 19" wild trout.

by loosing the planting program at putah creek, means that we are that much closer to making it a wild trout stream meaning NO BAIT, NO BARBS, NO LIMIT. which i cant wait for. no more worm canisters, egg containers as well as power bait cans and no more rude people on the creek. i know that all of us on this website cant wait to see that happen. this fishery will be so much better when that happens, no more bait guys keeping fish, no more crowded areas.

oh and yes wild trout are self sustaining. dont know where you have been fishing, but maybe you should look at the little truckee and the truckee, dont for get about the YUBA, no hatchery on that river. same with the smith. they are great self sustaining wild trout rivers. so dont know where you get your info from, or where you fish, but there are many self sustaining wild trout rivers and streams in california. get your facts right before you post.

seems like you are upset because you wont be able to keep anymore easy catchable fish. thats just a bumber. and once they close it down to no bait, no limit, and barbless only, then you will be crying. to bad for you, but great for the fish.

so quit whining, and realize that DFG is trying to fix the rivers lakes and streams, trying to get the fisheries back to the way the used to be in the past, this is great. this is going to better our fisheries in the long run. some areas are making it no limit on rainbows and cutt-throut, but you are able to keep browns, brookies and macks, they are just trying to the the trout population it used to be before the char (browns, macks, brookies) invaded our trophy waters.

some people just dont get it.

-- Edited by brian clemens at 13:17, 2008-12-12

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brian clemens wrote:

oh and yes wild trout are self sustaining. dont know where you have been fishing, but maybe you should look at the little truckee and the truckee, dont for get about the YUBA, no hatchery on that river. same with the smith. they are great self sustaining wild trout rivers. so dont know where you get your info from, or where you fish, but there are many self sustaining wild trout rivers and streams in california. get your facts right before you post.


-- Edited by brian clemens at 13:17, 2008-12-12



Brian,

Looking for clarification--you're talking about the "Wild Trout sections"...Aren't the Upper LT heavily planted by the campgrounds, Stampede and Boca both planted throughout the summer, and certain portions of the Yuba and Truckee receive plants?  I would like to get the facts straight after reading your post.

 



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the little truckee no longer gets planted ever since they have designated it as a wild trout river, the entire river not just section. the lower yuba doesnt get planted, it doesnt need to either, that would really mess up the wild trout population in that river, and same with the truckee river, the upper stretches of the truckee do the closer you get to lake tahoe, but once you get away from tahoe they do not plant, the lower section is a wild trout section as well. i am referring to the wild trout sections, they do not get planted. the upper truckee may get planted but i do not fish it. again i am referring to the wild trout sections. hope this clearifies.

-- Edited by brian clemens at 15:24, 2008-12-12

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noBait fishing is not the problem, people who dont obey the laws are. Ive seen fly fisherman go to the creek with a 12 pack in hand and come back with nothing but fishing gear.

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lets not get into this, all i am stating is that you see more garbage from the bait guys than you do from the fly guys, spools of balled up fishing line, worm containers, egg jars, ok you get the drift.

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When you start talking about native trout vs wild trout it gets a little sticky and will take DNA testing to prove the difference. Planter trout that hold over do take on the "characteristics" of wild trout, better color, harder fighting, full fins, but the DNA will show it's not a native/wild trout. Then these holdovers start cross breeding with native/wild trout and the DNA purity gets all f'ed up. To me, if two trout successfully spawn and the eggs hatch, then you are dealing with wild trout, even if one of them was a planter at one time. It's the messed up DNA that will make it NOT a "native" fish. Do a search and see how much research has been done to identify the different strains of "native" cutthroat varieties.

I think there are places that stocking is acceptable. Areas where there are lots of public access like the upper reach of the Big Truckee along all the camp grounds. Lakes that can't support a self reproducing fish, etc. The DFG doesn't really stock to keep populations of fish in rivers, for the most part. They plant for recreation so the public can easily catch fish. It's called Put and Take. Some exceptions , for example, would be the Big Truckee and planting cutthroat. The lahontan cutthroat "was" a native species that was wiped out years ago. The stocking of lahontans was to try an establish a new native/wild population of a long gone fish species. If they ever catch on, and probably won't, then they should change the regulations to protect them. Like they do on the LT, protect the wild fish by making stricter regs. Once a water becomes designated as a wild fishery it needs protection.

Putah is different. Historically there were wild runs of steelhead and some of the fish in there may carry that DNA but over the years it's gotten so mixed up that "native" fish are long gone. Are there wild fish in there, you bet. Putah, being so close to urban areas, will always have poachers, trash, snaggers, etc. The only way that will change is to have more enforcement and even then it would be tough. It's just too accessible to too many people. It's sad but true. Even with a wild trout designation and different regs, there will always be those problems.


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Its pretty easy to tell a holdover trout vs. a wild trout in putah creek. The wild fish almost never have spots below the lateral line, a holdover will be spotted differently and colored differently. The planted trout are no good for putah creek, they compete with the wild fish for food, they spread disease, and if they survive long enough to somewhat naturalize and spawn they dilute the wild fishes gene pool. I also beleive that is how the new zealand mud snail came to the u.s, In a load of brown trout eggs from new zealand.

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Correct Brian, the lower Yuba does not have a hatchery, i think little whip was referring to the north fork of the yuba, which is planted rigorously...However, the lower yuba, in certain spots, gets a pretty decent run of hatchery steelhead ( i have about a 1/4 hatchery fish catch rate on the yuba this time of year, down lower). Im assuming that these fish are finding their way into the system from the feather hatchery.  I've always wondered what affect these fish have on the fish.  I know you all are all talking about trout, but i wonder what affect such fish have on the steelhead.  I know the hatchery fish success rate is extremely low but i wonder if the hatchery fish still have an affect on the wild steelhead.  Im guessing that the occasional hatchery fish might spawn with a wild one? 

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they do have special regs on the big truckee for the protection of the fish, the size limit, some areas are no bait, no barbs, dont know the regs off hand, but there are signs up there everywhere. if you notice dfg have been planting a crap load of lahontans on the carsons, these are from the broad stock at heenen. pure strain lahontan cuttthroats. dfg is trying to rekindle the native trout that used to roam these waters. its about time dfg steps up and manage california rivers lakes and streams.

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Notice: The above opinions and four one dollar bills will get you a free bevearge of your choice at your neighborhood Starbucks. Some restrictions apply. Must have valid I.D. and current fishing liscence. Offer expires Dec 31.

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my coffee at starbucks only costs $1.85 (christmas blend is on right now).....One sweet and lowe and a little non-fat milk does the trick.

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drifter wrote:

i think little whip was referring to the north fork of the yuba, which is planted rigorously...




 I never said anything about the Yuba...?



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my bad lil whip.....flying dutchman

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I like what pack rat has to say, most of which was my point, i dont believe the stock trout are a problem I believe they are all that keeps the lazy fisherman from doing more to catch the wild trout. Ive caught 22+ in. trout in putah on a worm as well as 21s, 20s several 18-19s that were shaped like footballs, and dozens of dozens (that would be grosses!) of smaller wild trout from putah all memorable all on bait except a dozen or so on lures. on a different note have any of you seen the MONSTER largemouth bass below the dam? I mean 10pounders huge, they have to be feeding on the stockers (as well as crawdads and sculpinetc) and will impact the wild trout if a source of food is taken away

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Good news!! Starbucks has moved up the offer to Jan 31.

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