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Post Info TOPIC: Is it really illegal to fish from canyon creek resort side of Putah like the owner states???
Has anyone else been through this same song and dance with the owners of C.C Resort? [14 vote(s)]

I have been apprached by someone from Canyon Creek Resort regarding the same issue
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I have not been approached
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Is it really illegal to fish from canyon creek resort side of Putah like the owner states???
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Everytime the river is low, I like to cross it and fish from the canyone creek resort side because it is cleared. The past two times I have done this the owner said he would call the sherrif on me. I was standing not 3 feet from the waterline. Is this stil considered private property. I honestly think they are wrong and have no actual legitmate reasoning behind this.

-Colin

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He's the manager, not the owner and he is not user friendly. Unless  you step out onto the property its likely an empty threat. I've called Yolo County Sheriffs Department for an answer which  will be posted.

Here is a rather long post I found from another site from 2000, so it may not be current:

Basically, in California you can just about fish anywhere as long as you don't trespass on private property to get to the water. "Navigable" streams are public property to the high water mark, so you can wade in the stream and up to the high water mark on shore. Court decisions say that, if you can float on it for recreation, it is "navigable" -- and I think that if the river is suitable for just about any recreational use, it is "navigable" and therefore you can fish it if you can access it legally.

Below is a post I put on this board about a year ago. It's long as hell, but I think it pretty well covers the whole area of stream rights in California.

"In California there is no one statute that lays out the law of public access rights versus private property rights. You must look at the State Constitution, numerous court decisions, and a mish mash of state and local ordinances which are scattered all over the place. To make matters worse, public access rights usually are determined by the courts on a case by case basis for each fishery involved and there is no way of telling whether the Court will agree with you if get arrested for trespassing. You also might need to examine the public title records to determine what rights a particular private landowner actually has. Its a mess.

Below are points I gathered from my research:

1. Under the Public Trust Doctrine, as stated in the California Constitution and interpreted by the courts, the State owns the land underneath navigable water and holds it in trust for public recreational use and other appropriate use.

2. Court decisions hold that water is Navigable, as applied to non-tidal water like lakes and mountain streams, if the water can be navigated by small recreational or pleasure boats (kayaks, row boats, electric prams, rafts).

3. If you can legally gain access to navigable water without trespassing over private property, you have a constitutional right to wade and fish the river or lake, in addition to floating it.

4. You can wade and walk the banks of legally accessed navigable water up to the high water mark. The State has a public easement to the high water mark for non-tidal waters and owns the land under tidal water up to the high water mark. (Sometimes high water mark is a technical legal question. Usually, high water mark refers to the normal high water mark, not some unusual flood situation. For rivers, high water mark usually means the line at which permanent vegetation begins. For lakes, it is the normal high water mark, not the high water mark from unusual flooding.)

5. Tidal waters or waters affected by tidal influence are automatically subject to the public trust doctrine, whether they are navigable in fact or not. Streams which impact any navigable waters also are subject to the public trust doctrine whether these streams are navigable in fact or not. In addition, the legislature lists several rivers and waters which are declared to be navigable as a matter of law (e.g., Lower Sacramento River). Other rivers and lakes are held to be navigable by court decision (e.g., Fall River, American River, parts of the Russian River).

6. If a private owner obstructs the lawful recreational use of navigable water, he/she is legally liable for having created a nuisance. It is also a crime.

7. By court decision, you may access navigable rivers from state bridge crossings, on the basis that such use of the States highway easement is not unreasonable. However, it is possible in any specific situation that State or County regulations, or the Easement grant, might prohibit such use. Generally, unless the State says otherwise, you do not automatically have a right of access to a river from the States highway easement from a road which runs along side of a river on private property; it is only when the highway crosses the river (i.e., a bridge) that there is a right of access from the states highway easement for repairs.

8. You also can access navigable rivers through public easements provided for that purpose, or by permission of the owner of private land abutting the water. Municipalities must provide unobstructed access to navigable waters in or adjacent to its boundaries, and neither the city nor private landowners can interfere with public access.

9. There are Fish and Game Code provisions which require the owner of a dam to accord to the public for the purpose of fishing, the right of access to the waters impounded by the dam during the fishing season of the stream or river feeding the dam. This right is subject to regulations of the Fish and Game Commission.

10. As to non-navigable water on private land, the public generally does not have a right to access these waters. The Public Trust Doctrine does not apply to non-navigable water (i.e., water too small or shallow for a boat), except where a) the non-navigable water affects tide water, such as tributary streams which pour into a river which is affected by tides, or b) where the non-navigable water impacts navigable water. (You still cannot trespass on private land to access such water.)

11. The private landowner owns to the midpoint of a non-navigable stream, or he/she can own the land under an entire non-navigable lake or river that is situated entirely on his/her property.

12. By logical conclusion, if the landower on the East side of a non-navigable river objects to you fishing it, but the West side land owner says it is O.K. to fish, then you can fish and wade the river from the West side up to the mid-point of river.

13. It is possible that the public may have a right to fish non-navigable waters on private land, if the landowners deed reserves a public access, or if the public has obtained prescriptive fishing rights due to long time custom and usage. You would need to do some homework, here, like examining the public title records to see if there are any reserved public fishing rights.

It would seem, then, that the public has the right to fish most waters in this state, as a general proposition. The problem with all of this is that you cannot be absolutely sure of the private landowners rights, even where the water is navigable or appears to be navigable. The question of what is "navigable is decided by the courts on a case by case basis, depending on the needs of the particular water resource involved. So unless there is a court case or legislative enactment declaring the water navigable, you can never know whether the court will agree with your determination of navigable in the event that you are arrested for trespassing. The water may appear to the eye to be navigable, but a court might say no, for example, because fishing access may harm the habitat or may be unsafe. Finally, there may be valid State, County, or local regulations which restrict or prevent fishing, and so you would need to know these laws as well.

The legislature needs to enact a comprehensive statute defining public recreation rights versus private property rights. I believe it is always best to respect the private landowners rights unless you are absolutely sure of your ground - or water.



-- Edited by SK60 at 14:18, 2008-09-19

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Address: Putah Creek Trout, 1520 East  Covell Blvd, Suite 5, #331, Davis CA 95616

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Heres the answer provided by Yolo County Sheriffs: If you stay below the high water mark (probably defined by the edge of the resort grass area) you are not trespassing. If you do trespass by stepping out onto the property he can make a citizen's arrest, but he must give  you the opportunity to leave before the arrest is valid. If the Sheriff is called, they will ask you to leave before they would put you under arrest-if you refuse to leave then they will arrest you. If it were me, I'd politely tell him that I know the law, that I am not trespassing and he can call the Sheriff if he likes and leave it at that.

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PCT Contact Info: putahcreektrout@gmail.com, SK60@putahcreektrout.org

Address: Putah Creek Trout, 1520 East  Covell Blvd, Suite 5, #331, Davis CA 95616

Visit our website at www.putahcreektrout.org



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I've fished from the resort side many times and have never had anyone say anything AS LONG AS YOU ARE STANDING IN THE WATER, you are not trespassing.

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Just about everytime I have fished on the canyon creek side, some dufus drives up in his cart and informs me that I am on private property, even though I am wading in the water. I like SK60's suggestion which is politely inform them that you are within the right and let them decide whether or not to drag the Yolo County Sherriffs department out there. If you are wading I dont think they have any grounds to arresst you.

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Yep a lot of people like that will try to scare you by acting like they are staing the law and will get you in trouble if you dont listen but they are just angry people legally got to their waterfront. Just stay calm adn keep tempers at a minimum.

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Not like theres any great spot on that side, really not a big deal. I think they just like to advertise that they have "private" trout water, wich we all know is a load of crap.



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  I've had these same problems (not on putah) but on the trinity river. my grandfathers property backs up to the river (which we never yell at people or tell them to get lost just cuz there fishing to close to our property) and i like to cross and fish a strech of river on the other side and ive been chased out 2 or 3 times by some d bag that thinks he owns the water and which I asked a DFG warden up there and he told me that california law says that you can only own property up to the high water mark, and that no one can tell you to get out of the water or tell you to leave unless you pass the high water line, but last time the jerk chased my pops off with a gun so we just said screw it. No matter what river you are always going to run into this problem in certain areas, some people are nice and some are not. Just know the laws, and sometimes its just not worth the hassle, just find another spot.

 - Nic

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I have fished upstream of the bridge a couple of hundred yards and waded across to the resort side where the water is more shallow and easy to wade.  I have not been asked to leave, and would not do so if asked unless physically threatened.

One thing that annoys me is that the DFG plants loads of fish right in the resort, mainly for the benefit of their members.  It would seem to me that this adds a lot of value to the resort property, whcih is being paid for by our license fees.  I think it would be reasonable, that if the state provides free fish for the resort, then the public should be able to fish there.  If not, then perhaps we should not be subsidizing the resort owners.

Phil

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Xnjb707X wrote:

I asked a DFG warden up there and he told me that california law says that you can only own property up to the high water mark, .


Actually, you can own the land under the water.  What california law does is apply the public trust doctrine to certain property owned by individuals, such that the public has a right of way (or an easement) to use the land, up to the median high water mark (on navigable rivers as they existed upon statehood), for purpose such as fishing (among others).  ( I think SK-60 laid it out pretty well)

I think its always best to know the law down pat, the more you are familiar with the legal terminology and actual rights of involved, the more likely you are to have a DFG agent or landowner take you seriously.  Although I completely support property rights, its a shame that we havn't been able to find a way for all to equally enjoy access to some of California's finest trout waters.  The more we are able to share in a resource the more apt we are to rally together and fight to preserve such assets that are currently in such desparate need of a guardian.  A guardian which often takes the form of a fly-fisherman.

Havn't posted in a while:  been fishing the Yuba alot, but got away this past weekend to fish the East Fork of the Carson with JMO32.  Waiting to figure out how to set up my email on my phone to email myself the pics so I can post them.  All i'll say for now is a real BIG fish fell victim to a hopper biggrin


-- Edited by drifter at 21:29, 2008-09-22

-- Edited by drifter at 21:30, 2008-09-22

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WOW! This sure has touched a nerve! I also looked into this years ago and was told that they have whats called a recreational right for the property,and that property extends to the middle of the river.Another example of this is a mineral right which supposedly is the same thing. I was told this by the Yolo County Sheriffs Dept which is contrary to what they told Steve as posted earlier. Also lets not bash the elderly gentleman in the cart that runs everybody off , he's just doing what he's told to do and actually he is a pretty nice guy.

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Awww Greg,

So I suppose pretending I have an air horn on the Yuba is out of the question?

My god that brings back memories :)

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On a more positive note, I have personally seen the gentleman in the golf cart inform many a bait dunkers in the winter months of there wrong doing. I figure were all out there just to have a good time and maybe catch a few fish, no need to get into a confrontation with anyone about such trivial things, theres 4 miles of creek to fish.

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just go down there looking like ya belong and dont make eye contact with anybody. and whack some fish while your over there. yeeee hah!!!!! And dont forget bingo night. frickin bingo night wtf? anyway the fish planting wish that would really stop. My buddy and I were at the bridge wasting our time catching planters with our eyes closed literally with our eyes closed and low and behold i catch a little 8" beautiful putah native in the mix. made me think that this little guy shouldn't have to compete for food with a bunch of planters. there was way too many planters in this hole. dont ask why we were fishing for them we just cant help ourselves. the planters suck but for some reason it just never gets old having a fish take the fly. hehehe

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JT


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Matt R wrote:

And dont forget bingo night. frickin bingo night wtf?


You gotta love Bingo night.  I couldn't believe it the first time I saw the guy driving around in a golf cart with a megaphone letting everyone within a mile radius know that there was Bingo at 7 PM. 



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The best was when he was going around yelling on his megaphone, "spaghetti for lunch today". My friend and I could not stop laughing.

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they supposedly have mineral rights, why i dont now. but i do now that that means they own to the middle of the creek.

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