using a spinning reel setup on putah creek

Psyfisher · Veteran Member

using a spinning reel setup on putah creek

Psyfisher · Veteran Member

Brundoggy wrote:

Wow! That's just so beauiful, man!

Another elitist point of view that plays to the fly-fisherman stereotype.
If you really were as concerned about the fish, as you say you are, why would you put it through the stress of putting a sharp hook through it's mouth and then pulling it up and down the river only to release it because you care?

�

-- Edited by Psyfisher at 12:37, 2008-12-16

edog7 · Veteran Member

"I play him out using a long thin tippet, and then when I have bested him and he sits in front of me, conquered and helpless, I grant him mercy."� JESUS CHRIST I cant believe what I read on this board anymore!!!

edog

-- Edited by edog7 at 11:49, 2008-12-16

sehoner · Veteran Member

Psyfisher wrote:

I think you guys need to take a closer look at my language.� Aside from my first sentance which is almost purposefuly inflammitory and not entirely scincere the rest has no negative implications for spin fishing.� Having done both, I believe there is a more refined asthetic with fly fishing.� Its like blue cheese though, you may not like it even if it costs $30 bucks a pound.� By the way, just for the record, my entire rig including tying equipment and materials, waders, rods, reels, nets, vests, etc. costs less than $300 combined.� And I have never been discourteous to a spin fisherman.

Hey don't get me wrong I agree with some of the things you said and I agree that by majority fly fisherman have a better understanding and deeper concern for the ecosystems in which they fish versus the majority of bait and tackle guys.

�I also understand that some of the things you said were meant to be offensive and that is great, everyone has a right to voice their opinion.

However, When making an arguement, inflamitory comments do nothing to bolster your side.

I also agree and would rather watch someone fly fish than bait fish. It is more aesthetically pleasing.

The funny thing is, I didn't like Blue Cheese until 6 months ago....

sehoner · Veteran Member

edog7 wrote:

"I play him out using a long thin tippet, and then when I have bested him and he sits in front of me, conquered and helpless, I grant him mercy."� JESUS CHRIST I cant believe what I read on this board anymore!!!

edog

-- Edited by edog7 at 11:49, 2008-12-16

That is one of the most vivid descriptions for catching a fish I have read. Kinda makes me feel like burning ants. wink

Psyfisher · Veteran Member

I guess I don't see the cruelty in it. And I'm sorry if I was offensive. That was not my intention. Anyway, my words aren't comming out right today I guess. I'll remove my posts.� I'm also a bit curious, what offended you?

-- Edited by Psyfisher at 12:36, 2008-12-16

-- Edited by Psyfisher at 12:44, 2008-12-16

Psyfisher · Veteran Member

O.k. I'll try one more time. I didn't mean for my comments to be offensive, just to stir up the coals a little bit. Whenever you claim an inherint superiority of something you are going to get certain people rilled up, but I don't necessarily see what is offensive about it. There is a large portion of the population that dosen't believe in inherent superiority and I disagree with them. Not everything is subjective. I believe that a food critic has a better idea of what good food is than your average plumber. I believe a music critic has a better idea of what makes good music than most cab drivers, and as someone who spent most of his life spin fishing before converting to fly fishing, I think comparing spin fishing to fly fishing is like comparing a burger to fillet mignon. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with a burger, its just not as good. People can say thats just a matter of opinion, but my opinion is that it is an objectively better way to fish. If you take a poll of people who have put proper effort into both spin fishing and fly fishing, you would find that the majority favor fly fishing. I know of hundreds of people who have never touched a spinning rod again after taking up fly fishing, and I have yet to find one person who gave up fly fishing for spin fishing. Thats anecdotal evidence based on my own limited experiences, and I'm sure exceptions exist, I just don't know any. My comments were prompted by a love of fly fishing not a disdain for spin fishing, and I was attempting to express why fly fishermen are more likely to take an active roll in conservation, something that statistics would tend to support. I worded my statements in a way that left room for the conservation minded spin fisherman, which is what I was before I converted to fly fishing, and I know that there are many extremely devoted spin fisherman who do take that craft as seriously as we fly fishermen take our craft, and that there is much I can learn from those people which is why I have never been discourteous to a spin fisherman. I remember being a spin fishermen, and I remeber being intimidated by the learning curve associated with fly fishing, and I remember not understanding why fly fishermen were always claiming that fly fishing was a better way, and then I tried it and I understood. Also keep in mind I live in Minnesota and haven't had a tight line for months.� Its -10 degrees here so if my description sounds a little yearnful perhaps you can understand why.� As far as the people making fun of the way I express myself, I'm not going to dumb down my statements so that you don't accuse me of being elitist. If you are so close minded that you can't look past a colorful description and attempt to decide wether you agree with my statements or not, or take the time to attack them on thier merits rather than thier wording, then I have little time for you.

-- Edited by Psyfisher at 13:13, 2008-12-16

-- Edited by Psyfisher at 13:16, 2008-12-16

JT · Senior Member

sehoner wrote:

We can still have just as good a time on the water as we have always had, but we all, bait and fly fisherman alike, need to be wary of the impacts we have when we go out. These are the reasons we don't fish for spawners, don't walk on redd's and bitch and complain about all the trash people leave behind.
�

Good point, sehoner.

brian clemens · Senior Member

you see trash whether its yours or not pick it up, and just get out there and fish.

dtp916 · Senior Member

Please keep this going, I am laughing my ass off.

sehoner · Veteran Member

Let me be clear. I do not want and did not intend for my comments to be taken in the context that I was offended.

Psyfisher, I agree with what you said, I did not agree with HOW you said it. I understand what you meant by what you said, I was merely pointing out that it CAN be misconstrued as coming off as an elitist.

Like I said I also believe that flyfishing is more aesthetically pleasing than bait fishing, but you, like me, having been on both sides of the spectrum must understand how frustrating it is to having to listen to the constant blathering of "purests or elitist" in which all persons that use any other means to catch fish are the degredation of the sport.

I like you I am sure, "cut our collective teeth" on spinning outfits and were also taught an inherrent lesson in protecting, conserving and appreciating nature.

So you must understand the frustration behind people that still fish with bait and tackle when comments are made with elitist inflections.

I respect the fact that you have an opinion and are passionate about it, I don't have to agree with it though.

btw, my comment about your vivid description was actually meant to be a compliment. Afterall, didn't God give man dominion?

Rich.

Otter · Senior Member

This is some good stuff, but everyone should remember that fishing began as a way to catch food to eat. I don't eat wild trout, but I have a freezer full of salmon and rock fish that I catch in the ocean every year. All forms of fishing are fun, remember that some species should be released to further the fun. Every year more and more species decline. This year the salmon season was closed due to low counts and every year the rock cod have more regulations due to overfishing. I guess what I am trying to say is take what you need, but respect the fisheries. Oh yeah release all wild or native trout. Keep as many planters as you need.

Fly fishing can be an elitist sport, but not all fly fisherman are elitists. There are many great people on this board and on many rivers that will give everyone help. Fly fishers or spin fishers.

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

The fact is most bait fishermen fish not for the fun, but for the food... Most fly fishermen fish for satisfaction of knowing they caught the fish in the most natural way and released so another fly fisherman can catch it tomorrow.

WT · Senior Member

LilWhippersnapper wrote:

The fact is most bait fishermen fish not for the fun, but for the food... Most fly fishermen fish for satisfaction of knowing they caught the fish in the most natural way and released so another fly fisherman can catch it tomorrow.

How do you know that's a "fact"? �I hear 82% of fact are made up, and 57% of those facts which are made up come from friends and family, with the other 43% coming from Readers Digest.�

Secondly, even if it is true, what's unethical about eating? �Over catching is one thing, but I fail to see your connection with unexceptable practices, you claim bait fishers use, and eating food.�

I hate to say it but it sounds like we are justifying, and self justifying at that, one kind of fishing, fly fishing, and relagating another kind of fishing as the devil. �

-- Edited by WT at 07:03, 2008-12-17

drifter · Senior Member

I think people need to take a step back and remember how most of these discussions have started (and ill be the first to admit that I have added fuel to the fire)

They start with bait fisherman coming on a FLY FISHING board asking how to catch fish. �I personally have no problem with bait guys,(except for the fact their hands stink like power bait� smile

)�but when you come on to a FLY FISHING board your going to get some crap, which may be seen as "elitist commentary" but in reality, its just crap talking. At least a majority of the talk that sparked this whole thing.

This is not my board, its Bono's, so to that end I dont have room talking about who should be posting what. �But seriously, asking where to go, how to fish, what to use to catch big fish on bait, on a fly fishing board? �These people have the CRAP TALK comming, most of them are just trying to start the CRAP TALKING in the first place.�

spidermann59 · Newbie

My family consumes what we catch. We actually catch fish and have way more fun here at the creek than fishing at the local lake. Our lives do not have the time nor space to create flies at this time.

I believe the wild trout designation is a fancy term for "country club stream fishing for us who like to catch and release only " The most prime trout habitat at other rivers and creeks have been and more are targeted by fly fishing extremists through lobbying the DFG to designate as wild trout designation. War has been declared by this court ruling to halt trout planting throughout Northern California. Wild trout, how much did you pay this fool? This same guy that filed to save the spotted owl habitat? What a farce.

�Fly fish all you want just don't tread on me

sehoner · Veteran Member

drifter wrote:

I think people need to take a step back and remember how most of these discussions have started (and ill be the first to admit that I have added fuel to the fire)

They start with bait fisherman coming on a FLY FISHING board asking how to catch fish.��

....�what to use to catch big fish on bait, on a fly fishing board?��

Actually, the conversation started with this,

SHODON WROTE,
"where is the prime areas to use a spinning setup to catch the big ones on putah creek?"

�There is no mention of bait use in his question.

�The first assumption of bait use was made by one of our very own fly fishermen.

�It was assumed from the very begining that he wanted to use bait to catch and keep big wild rainbows from putah. I agree, some flak is to be expected for coming onto a fly fishing board and posting up quetsions regarding spinning gear, but what this has turned into is relative to the spanish inquisition.

Don't get me wrong I agree, if a person comes onto a fly board asking about conventional tackle use, he must expect and he deserves, to catch some $h!t.

What I have seen so far is:

The original poster hasn't posted anything else.
There was never any mention by the original poster regarding the use of bait.
The assumption of bait use was made and intergrated by a fly fisherman poster.
There was never any mention of KEEPING fish.
Keeping fish has been demonized (once again).
Some of the fly fishers that posted seem to not know the regs.
Words have been placed into others mouths and assumptions have been made.

What I think is hilarious is:

How the topic went from where to use a spinning setup to the arguement of bait vs. fly.

AND....once again we have missed ANOTHER opportunity to bridge the gap between bait and fly fishers.

Rich

JMO32 · Senior Member

Actually,...I think most of us got your point Drifter.� It doesn't matter how the post started; Spinner or Bait.� Either way no one has any interest on a fly fishing website about how to catch a fish using power bait, salmon eggs, rooster tails, etc.� If someone is looking for that info I would try another website where people have similar interest and fishing tactics.� Heck, I'll even post a link�below to help you out and extend a helping hand from fly fisher to other.

http://www.fishsniffer.com/cgi-bin/forumsyabb/YaBB.pl

Maybe Spiderdude can also check this out and post his blabs there too.� I know he's a little short on time and space though.

Black Cloud · Senior Member

This one is offically labeled �" Bait/Spinner Inquisition". They somehow seem to pop up this time of the year when fishing is slow. As far as some adding fuel to the fire we can all use the warmth with the cold weather. Just be careful that you don't burn down the house.

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

WT wrote:

�
Secondly, even if it is true, what's unethical about eating? �Over catching is one thing, but I fail to see your connection with unexceptable practices, you claim bait fishers use, and eating food.�

-- Edited by WT at 07:03, 2008-12-17
�

My point is... Most bait fishermen don't give a crap about the fishery... All they care about is their stomach. I think that is pretty unethical, and it is a fact that ALL bait fishermen catch just for the food... Cuz if they were catch and releasing, then it would be pretty unethical to release fish that have just had some pliers down their throat and kicked back into the creek....I've seen it. Why do we all catch and release? For conservation, right? This isn't about rights to a fisherman... It's about what we as fisherman can do to preserve the fishery.

Bugger · Senior Member

LilWhippersnapper wrote:

My point is... Most bait fishermen don't give a crap about the fishery... All they care about is their stomach. I think that is pretty unethical, and it is a fact that ALL bait fishermen catch just for the food...

��

Bugger · Senior Member

Black Cloud wrote:

This one is offically labeled �" Bait/Spinner Inquisition". They somehow seem to pop up this time of the year when fishing is slow. As far as some adding fuel to the fire we can all use the warmth with the cold weather. Just be careful that you don't burn down the house.

THE BIG PIKER · Veteran Member

AND WHAT ABOUT FLY FISHING WITH BAIT !!!
LOOK CLOSE

LilWhippersnapper · Senior Member

Haha, that would be bait fishing with a fly rod. Did you hook the smaller fish on a fly and the big guy tried to steal him?

brian clemens · Senior Member

i had that happened to me when i went home to upstate new york in sept, was fly fishing for northern pikes, hooked a nice 24"er and then here�comes a monster behind him, had to be almost double the size of the one i had on my fly, luckly by the time they both go to the boat the big guy saw me and took off. that would have been fun though. great pic.

-- Edited by brian clemens at 09:16, 2008-12-19

Psyfisher · Veteran Member

Did you guys know that if you are fishing in Yellowstone, and you catch a small fish on an artificial bait, and then that fish is eaten by a larger fish which you then land, you can be cited for fishing with bait?�� Don't know how the law in Cali works (Or the rest of Montana/Wyoming for that matter), but I do know that is the law at Yellowstone.� Freaky huh?

THE BIG PIKER · Veteran Member

IN THE YUK0N, YOU CAN SEE THEM COMING !!

gudawg · Veteran Member

thats tastebuds, not stomach, if I had to drag my old fat 270 lb carcass down those embankments cause I was HUNGRY ... I would starve, ahh but the thought of that wonderful taste, the firm sometimes pink flesh of a wild trout will take me up and down those trails, through the DREADED poison oak a dozen or so times a year. I will say the wild ass acrobatic tail walking way to strong for thier size fight has something to do with it. (And I hook about 80-90 % in the mouth) The otters, birds, serene surroundings, company and adventure can be part of the draw too ... but THE TASTE!

Jer5150 · Member

�Six words folks.

Baitfishing ain't always a bad thing.

shon42073 · Senior Member

gudawg wrote:

thats tastebuds, not stomach, if I had to drag my old fat 270 lb carcass down those embankments cause I was HUNGRY ... I would starve, ahh but the thought of that wonderful taste, the firm sometimes pink flesh of a wild trout will take me up and down those trails, through the DREADED poison oak a dozen or so times a year. I will say the wild ass acrobatic tail walking way to strong for thier size fight has something to do with it. (And I hook about 80-90 % in the mouth) The otters, birds, serene surroundings, company and adventure can be part of the draw too ... but THE TASTE!

Did you know the entire watershed in that area is known to have very high levels of mercury in it ? Including cache creek, berryessa, and putah creek. Might want to limit your intake.