Little Brown Stones

Otter · Senior Member

Little Brown Stones

JL · Senior Member

Otter:

Those are some UGLY bugs.

Was that a Cut Bow?� I've heard that a lot of the native rainbows on Putah are bred with Cuts - but that one almost looks like a 50/50!

JL

Otter · Senior Member

I am not sure if it is a cutbow or not. I am no fish expert. I have seen several fish with orange slash marks below their gills, many also have orange bellies. They may get the coloration from sitting on the bottom feeding.

JT · Senior Member

Are you sure they're stoneflies?� I can't tell from the picture, but�it looks more like�a dark caddis.� By the way, nice fish.

-- Edited by JT at 12:52, 2008-05-03

live2fish888 · Senior Member

Ive never sen anything like that fish on Putah. Nice fish!

SK60 · Senior Member

Hard to tell from the orientation in the pictures, but certainly looks like stone. Ken Davis has reported at least 9 different species from the creek and tributaries.

live2fish888 · Senior Member

When you found those stones, were any of the fish hitting them on the surface?

bono · Master Fly Fishing Guide

Those little critters are not stone flys,just look at the tail.I too have seen these in Putah especially during this time of year.These are quite thick below Diversion dam and in the stretch between Winters and Davis.When I first saw them I thought they were some sort of caddis as well,but I "think" they are dobbins flys.I remember seeing these when I was surveying the creek with Ken Davis for the dreaded mud snail I saw these and I "think"Ken said it was a dobbins fly.Maybe right maybe wrong!

SK60 · Senior Member

Dobson or alderflies. If the head were visible would eliminate the doubt as to what Chris is holding. Tributaries like Cold Creek and Thompson Creek have large numbers of larvae commonly called helgrammites-look like dragons and are up to 3" long. They have a pupal stage like other advanced insects and the adults are sometimes confused with both caddis and stones; as Bono points out they don't have the extended tails of the stone.

Otter · Senior Member

Hellgramite sounds good to me.� I thought they were bigger.� I guess all the bugs on Putah are smaller though.� I also thought they had mandibles.� Heres another pic.� It is a�good thing to have a few good entomologists on the team.

-- Edited by Otter at 11:59, 2008-05-04

SK60 · Senior Member

Males have the large mandibles as in the figure, females small ones. The male jaws are pretty much useless, but are firece looking.

JT · Senior Member

Looking at the pictures, I don't think it is a dobsonfly.� It does look pretty close to an alderfly, though.� Dobsonflies and alderflies are, at least�they were, classified in the same order (Megaloptera).� It's hard to keep up with all of the recent changes in taxonomy.

Greg Schuerger · Newbie

JL is on track they are alderflies a relative to the dobsomfly but smaller and the nymphs live mostly in leaf detritis and are predatory.� I have been seeing the adults and nymphs if you know where to look for years.� Dont think either the nymph or adult is a significant food source but Im sure the adults if they fell spent on the water could or would be taken opportunistically.

ranger · Member

An interesting critter; that's for sure! Based on the limited evidence these pics offer, and based on my 38 years of teaching HS Biology, plus 7 summers of teaching Genetic Engineering at UC Berkeley, my guess is that the fly in question is an Alderfly. It's definitely not a Dobsonfly, which of course is the adult of a Hellgrammite. It's also probably not a Stone, as the wings appear to be definitely tent shaped, not flat like a Stone. The order Megaloptera has 2 families, the family of Dobsonflies and Fish Flies, and the family of Alderflies. The first has large, scary-looking mandibles, not evident in any of the pics. The Alder, by contrast, looks like a husky Caddis. They prefer sunlight, and often oviposit during the day. Spring is when they are most active, with the maturing larvae undergo a rapid growth in early spring in preparation for pupal metamorphosis. By late spring they're emerging as adults. Also, hellgrammites are usually found in warmer water, more suited to Bass. Would be nice to get one in hand and key it out, just to be sure.

Otter · Senior Member

I don't think it is an alderfly. I found a site that says that alderflies have short antennaes. 1/2 the body length. http://www.flyfishingentomology.com/Alderfly.htm. Not a big deal as it is not a big hatch. I will try to catch another one and send it to Ken Davis though. In any case in flight the fly does look like a stonefly four wings that look like a biplane. The wings also fold like a stonefly. No noticeable mandibles or I wouldn't have held onto it. I just posted about it since it looked cool and it was a big bug.

JT · Senior Member

I found some pictures of alderflies that look similar to the fly you found.