I'm not a big fan of closing the creek in the winter. How many of you remember when DFG closed the creek the winter that they discovered the snails? That sucked! It is true that the fish that aren't spawning yet will be spawning soon, and the fish that are spawning now will be feeding again soon. The point being, there are feeding fish to be found. If it's not okay to fish for them at all during this time, then why do we fish for steelhead and salmon?

Great discussion.  Time to chime in, I was tending towards flygirls position until I found the following evaluation from Wisconsin. If you've read this far in this thread then it's probably worth your time to give this one a read too. :

http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/pubs/trout.pdf

The availability of studies is less than perfect, but strong arguments could be made that Putah is overall better off with the winter catch & release / artificials only approach and it would probably also benefit from eliminating the stocking program.  Fact is the same fish will get caught over and over again, and if you keep putting them back in the water they will keep spawning and keep getting bigger and keep getting caught, and if you avoid bait the mortality drops significantly, and if you go barbless that probably helps a bit too.

The Wisconsin evaluation identified a need to treat sensitive waters differently, i.e. where spawning populations were particularly vulnerable to fishing pressure, or there were limited areas suitable for spawning.  The last point is important when it comes to wading because when you walk on the redds there are going to be casualties, but this only appears to become a factor if there are limited areas for spawning. 

I think Putah is a bit on the borderline when considering if it is a sensitive fishery because it's so close to a metropolitan area and it's only a few miles long.  I think there's a lot to be said for education via posting signs or educating others you see on the streams and getting the word out through forums like this.  My vote is current winter restrictions are OK, post some signs, talk it up with others about  the redds, report/arrest/fine the snaggers, eliminate the stocking of hatchery fish altogether, no bait - artificials only (flies or lures), and limited or 0 harvest even in the summer.  May as well throw in single/barbless hooks as well. 

Hey Jt I remember that closure. That was great, since there was confusion on wether it was really closed I fished it anyway, I remember having lots of room to fish anywhere on the creek that year.

Without going into details (because the details are not available yet) an effort to possibly close Putah for a couple of months to protect the spawners and or protect thesteelhead and salmon,can you say fish ladder at diversion dam,may be in the very early works right now.I would whole heartedly support whatever benefits Putah and it's fish ,even if its a short closure.And yes ask anybody who has fished Putah for as long as I have or longer,it has steadily declined.I would also like to express my feelings of joy when I read all of these posts of the spawning fish and peoples awareness,I must admit that prior to the inception of this web site the concern and awareness of issues like this on Putah just wasnt there.Education is a wonderful thing!

   Hey Gents and Gals,      As a long time PC fisherman I feel compelled to chime in. Current annual regulations for Putah Creek has been in place for as long as I can remember and the fishing has held up and remained relatively good or has always came back through the years. The only time it really took a beating was when a major San Francisco news paper put out a big article about the creek in the early 1980's.  Placing a fish ladder sounds great for the fish to access more spawning grounds. But, the smell of wild steelhead I think would attract more  fishermen  ( flyflingers and baitcasters ) in this small and fragile creek. We are lucky and should be content with what we have and be cautious of what we wish for. I may be just paranoid, But this can spell doom and gloom for the creek.  ...But thats just me.   Take care,    Vix

Mx19 has this moving in the right direction. This fish has been caught,  played too long and finally released. Time to move to another spot on the creek.

y'all are just picking a fight with each other. lets make a more positive forum, this may be our forum's down fall if we don't stop soon. so QUIT arguing and get your butts out to the creek. FLY FISHING SOLVES ALL PROBLEMS!!!!!

this was supposed to be a positive, respectful post, what happened. dont you people get the reason why i reposted this in the first place. all you guys want to do is bash and argue. i completely agree with you daara, (who by the way is our younger generation on the site), I didnt post this to argue with anyone, or start another fight.

i wanted to get to the bottom of this whole "unethical guide" fishing the redds, and of course others fishing them as well. i am really hurt by what some of you have wrote, and dont really think you get why i posted this thread.

I personally invited the "unethical guide" to the post, but as you all noticed he never did.

you can bash me all you want for reposting this, and what i have to say. but that bottom line is, is that i had to see where most of you stand, especially the guide, which he never did. this post has really shown me a few things. parts of me is mad, some is sad. either way, i guess it doesnt really matter. what matters is that some of the statements and points are great while others dont make any sense.

this forum is for insite, education, questions, posting about your day, your catch, or whatever else you have to say, and what most of you have forgotten about is that its supposed to be FUN!!!!! doesnt anyone get that. its like some of you just want it short and sweet, and you cant just be on here for chit chat, or sh-ts and giggles. do you ever think that some of us get on here to read and get away from their worries and stresses in life. well thats what i do. i cant be out there fishing 24/7, maybe once a week if i can afford it, so i live that life through this forum. chit chattin, answering question, maybe asking a few of my own. i have just recently started reading the older posts, and its my oasis-get-away as you might put it.

the point to all of this was really to get the point across about fishing the redds. not agruing about it, and how putah should be. YES WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE, BUT IF WE DONT WORRY ABOUT TODAY THERE WILL BE NO FUTURE.

With so many people on this site, and only a few of us that represent the forum, i am sad to see people respond so negatively to this topic. i thought i did a nice job on creating this thread and asking that we all respond in a positive and respectful matter, some of you have and some havent.

i dont know what will happen to this topic in the days to come, but i do know this. i am flabber gasted by some of the response and really dont know what more to say or think.

-- Edited by kbigelow at 13:55, 2007-12-15

ac22 pm sent

Bravo ! Well put Lahontan. Enough reading, Now I go fishin ! One more thing ? Bono speaking of a fish ladder, I have stopped on my way home the last few weeks and have not seen a single salmon or any fish for that matter this year, I think i saw 6 last year, Has anyone seen anything ?

-- Edited by thecaptain at 08:10, 2007-12-16

I think most of us (locals and visitors) want to do the right thing and that is "not to fish the Redds". But there are some that dont care if they do the right thing. And the best way to get people to do the right thing (when they dont want to) is peer pressure.

A simple sign campain and friendly reminder could do that. Post signs to designate the Redds so people can avoid them (that is something we can do without DFG). If people choose to fish the Redds after that give them a friendly reminder.

Its like a disabled parking zone. People may choose to park there when they are not entitled but look like big jerks when they do. Point it out to them and you might get a little grumbling but most will move.

We all know there are unethical fisherman out there (fly and bait) but for most people peer presure is more effective than laws or rules. You can see this in our communities. Those communities that accept criminal/unethical behavior are crime ridden. Those that do not have a lower crime rate.

Post some signs, speek to those who disregard them, and make ethical chooses for yourself and I think we can do a lot to keep the Redds free of fisherman.

Sorry if that post sounds a bit like a "Community Policing 101" class but thought Id add my .02

As a guide who has a client on Putah about one day every 3 weeks throughout the year, it's great to see all the expressions of concern about protecting fish on their redds as this is probably their most vulnerable state. After a career teaching Biology for 38 years at the HS and University levels, I suspect that much of the animus directed toward those who fish on the redds is due to ignorance on the part of some who don't realize just how vulnerable these spawners are; in particular the females whose energy is completely directed toward their reproductive act. My impression has been that the vast majority of fly fishermen and women tend to be philosophically in tune with the environment. The other few whose behavior is unacceptable are perhaps guilty of greed and hubris. Given the fact that Putah Creek is reputed to be "the most heavily pounded stream in California" in terms of anglers per mile, it shouldn't come as a surprise that there will always be a certain percentage who seem "blissfully unaware of the concept" regarding the sportsman's creed to be "stewards of the land and waters". Regarding the behavior of a "rogue" guide, who should know better, I recall my surprise when I first applied for a guide license several years ago only to find that there is no qualifying exam or real review required to become a guide in this state. I know that is not the case in many other big fly fishing states. All one has to do in California to become licensed is to fill out the application, pay a fee, and secure a bond. I would like to see more demanding criteria developed and applied to this licensing process, to include a requirement that guides realize they are "teaching" etiquette and sportsmanship as well as fly fishing skills.

I've read all the posts on this subject with great interest. Personally, I stopped fishing the creek during the spawn about 5 years ago after witnessing guy San Jose kill a spawner. I was fishing below the ladder with 2 large spawners at my feet. I was casting over them just watching them and enjoying the antics of the spawn. I eventually left, no sooner had I left that 2 other gus moved in and started to fish the red. Eventully they hook one. They had that fish out of the water for a good 4-5 minutes. I then watched as one of the guys threw the fish back into the water. And I mean threw the fish. I knew that fish was dead or would be soon. I decided I could not be part of this any longer. I'll go up there in the summer now, but not during the spawn. Flygirl has the best idea, and maybe the creek could be made a pay to play recreation area. 

just hearing that gets my blood boiling, but hey you cant win them all i guess, atleast you tried to educate them. good job. thats all we can do, tell them about fishing the redds and hope that they get it, if they dont, at least you can say that you tried and it wasnt a waste of breath.

-- Edited by brian clemens at 18:05, 2007-12-18