Fishing Etiquette Question

chemdoc · Senior Member

Fishing Etiquette Question

brian clemens · Senior Member

i dont see anything wrong with what you are asking i would feel that same way, if there isnt enough room for 2 people them keep moving, unless they ask you do you mind if i give it a few casts then maybe, but to ask how it is then just start fish, thats a big no no.

i also have had this done to me by bait fisherman, and very young fly fisherman. dont know how young yours was but the ones that did that to me was about 16-17 yrs of age. and in my mind that age now a days dont give a rats ass. they will fish there even if you say that you do mind. me being 26 probably would have said something to them, i am not confrentational but i do get a lil mad if something like that happens. so i definitly would have spoke up and said something.

great job though keeping your cool. i know i wouldnt have, and really need to work on that.

but as far as etiquette they was in the wrong, especially if he was withing 20 ft. if there is enough room for 2 people and he askes then fine, but the first tangle that they cause will be their last.

sorry to hear that you had to deal with that, but looks like you had an ok day. wish i could land some fish on a dry fly. i havent ever tried it. wouldnt know what to use. or where to use it.

chemdoc · Senior Member

You know Brian, I haven't used dries much in the past on Putah, but a couple of months ago Concord Bob and I were fishing, and even though there were no rises, i decided to give it a shot.� I figured that if they would come up on Sierra streams, perhaps they would on Putah as well.

I had a lot of action that day so I usually carry my 3-wt with a dry along with my other rod I use for nymphs and streamers.� Bob and I have both been catching fish on size 18 BWO, parachute Adams, and e/c caddis.� We haven't landed any large ones, but a lot of 6-8 inch wild fish, which is still fun.� It seems that shallow water with a slow to moderate current works best.� Of course, fishing shallow is why I am not catching the pigs the rest of you guys are.

Phil

brian clemens · Senior Member

e/c caddis i hear that alot, what is the difference between a e/c caddis, and a e/h caddis, which i know ek stands for elk hair caddis. well then you also have the ez caddis as well. so ec this ek that and even an ez every so often. whats the dilly yo. whats the difference. pics would be nice as far as pics of the flies.

thanks

chemdoc · Senior Member

The e/c stands for emerging/crippled.� I have trouble keeping them all straight myself.� If you go to americanfly.com of theflyshop.com, or any of a number of shops, they have pictures of all of the different flies.� I often forget what a fly is that I have in my box and these websites are very helpful.

Phil

brian clemens · Senior Member

thanks looking at them right now

so whats the difference between a caddis parachute and an emerger caddis parachute, they look the same to me. but know i see the different types.

so you say 18's huh. thats gettin small. but thats whats on putah. how do you fish those. on the seam of the fast and slow moving water, or do you through it out into the fast water and let it swing. i know you said in the shallower water. just wondering. one more thing i was watchin i fish thing online about these bamboo poles. are brown trout really aggresive as they look when it comes to dry flies. these browns was nailin those flies. it was crazy.

SCM · Senior Member

I was taught to ask the person fishing a particular stretch of river which way they are working the flow, up or down-stream. Then its a common courtesy to ask if you could work in the opposite direction or drop in further above/below the direction they are working. It is definetely not cool to drop in on another angler and crowd them. Also it is not good form to wade through an area where someone is fishing. I had a guy (and his dog) splash right through a riffle I was working.

JT · Senior Member

Chemdoc,

You were in the right.� I would have done the same thing.� This may happen much more frequently now that bait season is over.� For those of you who don't know, this is the busiest time of year on the creek.� At least in the past, Putah has been one of the only places in the area that was open to trout fishing.�

When I approach a hole where someone else is fishing that I want to fish, I talk to them for a little bit.� This gives me the chance to see if they're moving upstream, downstream, or staying put in the hole.��If I really want to fish the hole, I'll wait for them to finish.� Or, if�the hole is fairly large, I'll ask them if they mind if I fish below them, above them, or across from them.� Some people like to fish alone and would prefer if�I went elsewhere.� Others don't mind the company.� Either way,�a little communication goes a long way.

Lahontan · Senior Member

Hey Phil,

Is that the spot you and I ran into each other, before the clean up?� I have never hit the hole where you were that morning ... do to the upstream spot I've "fixated" on that's right next door.

We seemed to peacefully coexist that morning Ok. About 30-35 yards apart. But there definately would not have been room for one more.� I say you were taking the high ground educating the young man a tad.

Clearly Putah is a pretty heavily trafficed spot, but for many, myself included, the illusion of solitude is a big part of why I go in the first place. I gave up fishing from piers in the 8th grade. ha ha.

I have already had similar experiences to the ones mentioned in this thread. Some very thoughtful folks, and some not so thoughtful.� I find that the ones who are not so�considerate, are not very aware of how easy it is to spook a pool ... even as they approach a pool to fish on their own.

When I'm hiking looking for a place to wet my line, I'll often retreat to the trail to avoid getting in someone elses space.� A courtesy I've seen reciprocated on the creek from time to time.

I think the comments made by JT, SCM, and Brian here all have merit.� I think back to surfing as guy in my early 20's and how territorial the little "grommies" could be.� A popular motivational speaker I like has said, "it's not worth getting exercised over".� I think the young fellow was lucky it was you and not one of his peers!� biggrin

� They'd've likely not been so kind. I hope he learned something.

Always better to take the high ground ... it's fishing for crying out loud!

Ed.

viking · Veteran Member

Hi Chemdoc, I experienced pretty much the same thing yesterday,(Sunday 11-25). I'd gotten to Putah at first light and made my way to a nice run about 100 yards or so upstream from the bridge. By 11 am I had 4 nice fish to the net and was methodically working the�run from�bottom to top and then back to the bottom again. This rested the fish in each section for a bit until I pounded it again. At about 11:30 or so�I was sitting on a rock re-rigging and a guy walks over and asks if I'd mind if he makes a few casts at the tail of the run. I say" of course not" , and he�has at it.�When I've�got my bugs tied on, I go to the head of�the run and�get busy. About a half hour later,the guy's buddy shows up and slides in between us. This guy said nothing to me in the way of how's it going etc.�just started fishing. Oh well. They were still there when I left�at about�2:30�Before they'd arrived I was averaging about a fish an hour.�After the showed up........nothing. Still it was a beautiful day, I'd caught some fish, and a hot meal was waiting for me when I got home!��Tight lines, Viking��

brian clemens · Senior Member

man no respecto what so ever out there on the creek. i really hope this doesnt happen to me anytime soon, and that i am also by myself. i wont be able to keep my cool. if someone is there with me i might be ok. but if not. oh boy. here comes HELL BOY.

cole · Senior Member

I agree Brian.� Last year I threw a baseball sized rock into a hole a guy was fishing who spot poached me.� I see the dude once in awhile out there still.� Thinks he owns the place.� If I can hit you with twenty feet of my line no matter where you are at least say "hey man how's it going" it's the easiest thing in the world.� Generally if you enter you should be upstream of the next dude.� Otherwise say hey do you mind if....

brian clemens · Senior Member

i would have thrown more than one, the first one would have been to scare the fish, the second to scare hit. gotta love those people that think they own the place, i am very glad that i havent come across one of these people yet poaching a shot or paoching a fish. if i do i hope i can keep my cool. it willbe tough though. lets just hope i aint by myself and fishing with one of my fishin buds.

SK60 · Senior Member

The guy might be a lawyer; he is certainly a narcissist-someone to avoid. These guys are what make me choose access 5 as my "favorite" spot. The water is crappy and the fish usually scattered, but I always catch at least one in the 2 hours I spend there. Ran into a guy fishing "my" spot this morning. Asked if he was going up or down-he said up, so I asked if he minded if I went down to the next riffle/tail out. He said no he didn't mind and thanked me for asking since so many of the guys just move in next door. After he left I went back to the spot and caught my 1 12" fish and lost 3 others in the 15" range, so another short morning well spent.

shon42073 · Senior Member

Hey cole, I remember a post maybe a year or so ago were a guy said somebody through a big rock in the water by him, I think he thought it was some contruction workers in the area that day, Man was that you ? Cuz thats pretty dam funny. Some people think they own the creek. I had� guy walk up and ask if he could fish in my hole, it was obvious that there was not enough room, But since im a nice guy I said sure, Not even very freindly guy after i let him fish my spot, That was last friday. But its something i have come to expect at putah, Thats why i love fishing in the sierras so much, I go a whole day without seeing even a single person many times and get so far out in the middle of know where there ain't nothin but the critters.

Daara · Senior Member

another etiquette Question. my bud and i were fishing in the same spot as viking, but one week before hand (11/18). i started fishing in my favorite hole and my friend casts right into my drift. well what the hell, it's a one time mistake. but, he KEPT doing it. so, next time if he does this should i tell him about the proper etiquette?

-- Edited by Daara at 18:37, 2007-11-27

shon42073 · Senior Member

Its not the same when your fishing a spot with your buddy. Brian, didnt we tangle a few times last time out

Hey what can i say you had the good side of the run and i was tryin to creep in on your spot biggrin

Daara · Senior Member

thanks. i'll keep that in mind.

brian clemens · Senior Member

ya i dont allow creeping, cuz you start creeking ill step up. hahaha. ya it was crazy how i would cast into the middle of the run, then you would about 5 ft behind me and buy the end of the run we would be tangled. how crazy is that. i have always wondering what happens to my fly and weight, you know everything under the indicator after it hit the water. knowing that someone cast 5 ft above you and you still get tangled something is happening. but ya it was funny how at the end of the run we would both set the hook thinkin it was a hit on the swing and everytime we would think we had a fish when all we had was eachother. aaahhhhh aint that sweet. good times good times. i think if you are fishing with a buddy it should matter, you to are out to have a good time and if you are fishin next to eachother or across from eachother yous are bound to get tangled every so often.

Shark Diver · Veteran Member

Fly people have more class than bait fishermen, so it would stand to reason what you encountered were actually bait guys posing as fly guys, since no fly guy I know would be so rude.

It happens sometimes and you're more than right to say a few words to the little miscreants, ahem, fellow brothers in flies. They might not have had the oppertunity to learn from someone older who could have taught them the ways of the river.

I need to say thanks to Otter, who I met a while back on the river at one of my favourite hidey holes. I walked up to see how he was doing and to ask how it had been there since this was my first time back since last year at the same time-this hole almost always has a few 19's hunkered down in it.

He was open and upfront about his chances on that hole and then in a huge surprise he said "have at it" and went upstream!

I was prepared to sit back and wait, but he just let me at it. 15 mintes later after pulling off a 10 inch shaker, I glubbed into an absolute leviathan who shook it's head back and forth in huge sweeps and got my heartbeat doing the Hummingbird-Bassanova.

Needless to say, 4 minutes later and one good screaming run downstream it was all over but for the sweat. There goes another PT Flashback. If anyone finds it, I will trade you for a tan fox pupa I pulled from a 15 last week.

Otter's a good guy and I owe him an old fashioned "walk away" next time we meet, hopefully that will be soon.

-- Edited by Shark Diver at 18:18, 2007-11-28

Packrat · Senior Member

"If anyone finds it, I will trade you for a tan fox pupa I pulled from a 15 last week."

Alright, who's NOT fishing barbless hooks?????

When I'm out with my fishing buddies and come across a good spot we don't have any problems taking turns and rotating through runs...it's like we are guiding for each other, spotting fish, pointing out where to cast, when to mend, helping watch for subtle strikes. When it's between friends it's a totally different story then if a stranger walks up on you.

If you ask before just starting to fish, most of the time the other guy will not mind. I know I ran into Chemdoc once at #5 and he was doing really well in a hole. I was just watching and wasn't even thinking about fishing when he asked if I wanted to fish the same hole. It's the rude guys who just barge in and cause the trouble. I think most out there are decent but there will always be a few jackasses!

cole · Senior Member

I have actually had like three "meeting" whith this dude so I sort of wigged. Some people just don't know I guess. Fishing with the bros is a whole nother deal and as long as everyone is hooking fish why not cast over youy buddy for fun.� If you hook one right in front of him it's even better. biggrin

-- Edited by cole at 17:10, 2007-11-29

brian clemens · Senior Member

hookin one on his drift is the best. it always gets um thinking. i actually prefer fishing with buddies, not that i dont mind fishing by myself but just having someone to **** the breeze with, maybe a 420 friend. hahaha. or just help eachother out on a spot. its just a lil more fun that way

Waters · Member

You guys know that when any creek is pounded like Putah, sometimes the best fishing is not in the prettiest holes. The little slide slots and pools that others walk right by on the way to the big hole often harbor good fish and are not the target water for the jerks. And, unfortunately, there are some of these on every river. Not little pools and slots but jerks.

If somebody came to a spot I was fishing and set up within 20 feet of me, I'd tell him that sorry, this is my water and ask politely that he leave. If he said he was new and apologized, I'd spend some time educating him on etiquette on the water so he'd have a clue next time. The more face time you can get with these folks, the better chance that the person will not be a repeat offender.

If he resists moving, I'd make sure that my next 20 casts get very sloppy and do my best to put the fish down. Then I'd leave and find a place to myself, all the while being certain to give a wide berth to any other fishermen I happen to see.

This last thing can be tough on Putah since it is so tough to get around. However, in the long run it is worth it since the reciprocal is that some day you might feel you have Putah all to yourself.

shon42073 · Senior Member

I had 2 guys move in a little closer then they should have last weekend. I see this guy around the bridge all the time, Always wears a raiders ball cap. Not a very talkative guy either. At least start a freaindly conversation. But its all good fish had lock jaw that evening anyways.

Daara · Senior Member

last weekend there was a guy hogging a hole and caught FIVE fish. when i asked if i could be after him he said,
Sorry. i'm gonna be a while!" so i thought F!@k you man. i did a bunch of relly messy casts and sent the fish diving for the depths. WHAT A HOG!

shon42073 · Senior Member

If i am on the fish i ain't gonna share my spot, Point blank, thats just how it is. BUT....In Daraa's case i'd let a youngster fish my hole for a bit. I look at it like this, I drug my butt up at the crack of dawn, freezing my arse off to get this spot first thang in the morning. People that i know of course thats a different story.

chemdoc · Senior Member

Actually Daara, I would have to say that the first fisherman had the right to stay and fish the hole if he chose.� Sometimes those hot days are few and far between, or he may be someone who fishes infrequently, and was enjoying a rare banner day.� I have, at times, moved on to give someone else a chance at a hot spot, and if I meet another board member, I am always happy to share.��But someone who is fishing a spot has no obligation to move on until he is done fishing.� I have often found someone fishing a spot I would have liked to fish, and in such cases I just find another spot and check back later to see if it�is open.� Like Waters said in his earlier post, you never know where the fish will be found, so the next hole may be just as good.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Phil

cole · Senior Member

Well I agree with all that and some people need to be taught.� The discussion lately in the mags is about the old generation vs. the younger.� Can we get along?� Hell yeah and I enjoy that stuff.� One of the things I have had to learn is that just because someone enjoys flyfishing doesn't mean you will get along with them.� You would think we're all the same.� Uh-Uh.� Case in point the spot poacher.� I have met way cooler people than bad.� What happened to Gordon, with his ten footer, where's the dude from Napa with the "tyin bugz" license plate.� See ya out there.

brian clemens · Senior Member

i know for sure oldschool and newschool can co exist. SK60 and myself had a good time on 12-4 and definitly would do it again. there are always to sides to every story or in this case 2 sides to the fly fishing world, those that fish for the passion the addictive nature, one that doesnt care if he catches one, none or all, just to be out there on the water, the noise of nature just being one with the waer, and then you have those that try to catch the biggest baddest fish no matter how they do it. aka braggers. need i say more. they will never learn and they will someday get theirs.

just my 2 cents. i am the one that has a big firey ball of passion under my ARS for fly fishing. and just fyi i dont care if you are 10 or 100 you can fish with me anytime.