Signs Along Creek

JT · Senior Member

Signs Along Creek

drhays · Veteran Member

My ex was a teacher.� You can laminate with contact paper for realy cheap.� How many signs are you talking about?

JT · Senior Member

I'm heading up to the creek in the morning to get a better idea of how many signs we're looking at.

drhays · Veteran Member

Let me know JT and I will help out with the laminating.

Fishmom · Member

Cheap lamination won't last long outdoors. The job they do at Kinko's is fairly high quality and would probably last at least a season. Not cheap though, as I recall--maybe $5 a sign?

JT · Senior Member

Thanks drhays and Fishmom.� I'll make some calls in the morning.

dtp916 · Senior Member

You have an awesome idea on the signs, JT. Do you think the DFG would have a problem if you posted the regs around the creek? I would shoot for 12-15 signs, and maybe we can raise funds, once you find out what the price will be.

JT · Senior Member

I think you're right about the 12-15 signs, dtp916.� We want to get the message across, but we don't want to pollute the scenery at the same time.

windknots · Senior Member

Great idea, I poked around and found this link for outdoor signage stock, though there are probably many other products like this one:

http://www.igage.com/WeatherP.htm

12-15 may be too low, you would want to consider where they would go, such as each fishing access, one for the path upstream and one downstream, then one or two up by the bridge, one or two near the parking access to the dam, and wherever there is any kind of bulletin board, there are also�unofficial access points to consider.� Then there are the stores in the immediate area that sell bait or tackle.�

How does one get permission to get the signs posted?� The county parks may have standards and guidelines for such things, including the size, how they can be attached, and how they would be maintained.� It's best to figure this all out ahead of time so that nobody gets upset.� Little details matter too, like which inks hold up better to UV, just want to make sure that you don't laser print something, put them all out there, then come to discover that the colors faded in 2 weeks.� Anybody know a good print shop?

Then there is the matter of what should be on the signs, there are three things I can think of that people need to know about, the special regs, the redds, and the mud snails.� Not that they all have to be on this, they may already be addressed, but it doesn't hurt to consider what is the full scope of sign worthy material and what is the best strategy for getting it all out there without inadvertently wall papering the outdoors.

I'd be happy to chip in some $ to help pull it off.

JT · Senior Member

I checked out the different access areas�along the creek today to get an idea of how many signs we would need.� I have an estimate of about 45.� That includes the access points and pullouts from the bridge to below access #5�and includes the market at Canyon Creek Resort, Pardehsa's Market, Berryessa Sporting Goods Mini Market(Winters), the market at Markley Cove, and the market at the junction of Highway 128 and Highway 121.� It would be nice if we could post some signs�along the creek in the resort as well.� For some of the signs we will need a plywood backing to keep them from being ripped apart in the wind.� Others will be fine if we can put them up on trees.� They should last quite a few years.� I noticed some of the old special regulation signs. �If I remember right, these were posted before the year 2000.� As for the mudsnail signs, there are already quite a few of those.�

windknots · Senior Member

Man, JT, you are all over this, nice work!� To me your number and approach sounds realistic and appropriate and cover all the right spots.� Were you able to find out what it takes to get any official sanctioning of signs that are posted?

Below is a google search that returns lots of links that raise a few questions....

outdoor signage -neon -electric information laminate uv resistant

From a cost perspective, it seems to make sense to determine the service life of the sign, will it have information that potentially changes with each year?� Or will it be more general and be just as accurate 5 or more years from now as it is today?� It helps to know up front what you need the sign�to do, it makes it a lot easier to make a few key decisions later in an ounce of prevention vs a pound of cure kind of way.� Yeah, yeah, my work life is bleeding into this, I can't help it, but it usually makes life easier down the road if you think of this stuff up front.

Making and posting nearly 50 signs would be a lot of effort, I'd also be happy to contribute some time though I'd have to work around the logistics, I live down on the peninsula.�� It doesn't all have to be done at once, it could be post some signs, then go fishing.� Come back another day and post some more signs, then fish some more, and repeat.� No need to make it too much like work and the world doesn't stop turning if it's not all done in one day.

JT · Senior Member

I talked to someone at the Fed Ex store about laminating.� They said it would be about $4 per sign.� He wasn't sure if there would be a discount for the number of signs we were looking at making.�

I still haven't found out about�any special permission to post the signs.� I will try to look into that in the next couple of days.��

Windknots, you brought up a good point about the service life of the sign.� We are not sure if the regs are going to change in the near future.��One potential change�is the use of barbless hooks to single barbless hooks.� If there is a change, the signs would have to be updated.

��

TMS · Veteran Member

JT...Specifically, what information are you putting on the signs? Sounds like a good idea.

JT · Senior Member

So far this is what I have.� It�has pretty much�come straight from the regs book.� It would appear more official if we had the seal of the DFG.� We would definitely need their approval for that.��If you have any comments or suggestions, let me know.��

Attention Anglers�

Special Regulations on Putah Creek from Solano Lake to Monticello Dam�

Last Saturday in April through November 15:
Daily Bag and Possession Limit � 5��

November 16 through the Friday preceding the last Saturday in April:
Only artificial lures with barbless hooks may be used.
Daily Bag and Possession Limit � 0��

Anyone caught breaking these laws is considered a poacher and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!�

If you see anyone poaching or polluting the creek, immediately call the Department of Fish and Game at
1-888-DFG-CalTIP (1-888-334-2258).

-- Edited by JT at 08:28, 2007-03-21

-- Edited by JT at 08:30, 2007-03-21

JT · Senior Member

It doesn't want to post in the exact format that it was written, but it's pretty close.� I don't know why the smiley face is in the middle of the number.� It seems that it is a code for the�smiley.� Oh well.�

azee · Newbie

Even though I am new to the creek, it does get my blood boiling seeing the illegal activity happening, so thanks JT for taking the lead on this. I don't have time to call today, but if anyone else has the time, I found some contact numbers/email addresses for the Dept of Fish and Game which might help with respect to having them authorize this and/or assist:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/contact/

I've copy/pasted the basic info from that site below:

* DFGHeadquarters
1416 9th Street, Sacramento, CA 95814
Information Desk: Room 117 (no licenses sold here)
* Main DFG Information Line: (916) 445-0411

* Inland/Freshwater Fishing, Sport Fish Management: nmanji@dfg.ca.gov
* Fish and Game Commission's Regulatory Process: fgc@fgc.ca.gov
* Enforcement: Is it against the law to...?: lschwall@dfg.ca.gov

-- Edited by azee at 11:48, 2007-03-21

JT · Senior Member

Thanks, Azee.� I also don't have much time today.� I'm supposed to be studying for a final.��After noon tomorrow I will be free to make the necessary phone calls.

Does anyone have a laminator or have acces to one?� It�would make the�lamination a whole lot cheaper.� $4 per sign�for lamination adds up quickly.�

windknots · Senior Member

I'm not sure how much of the creek falls within the borders of the Solano County Parks division but you can find a number for them here:

http://www.co.solano.ca.us/SubSection/SubSection.asp?NavID=1078

The group that administers the land is the key one to work with on this.

JT · Senior Member

The Solano County Parks Division most likely only covers the Solano county side of the creek.� The side where most of the signs need to be posted is in Yolo County.� Is there a similar group for Yolo County?

JT · Senior Member

Bono gave me a number to call for the DFG.� I have since made the call and�am waiting for a call back from them.� Thanks Bono for your help.

shon42073 · Senior Member

Jt that will be a good sign to post, Maybe you there should be a donation set up to help�out with the cost, I'd be willing to put down a little

JT · Senior Member

I'm still waiting for a call back from the DFG.� Hopefully I'll be able to talk to someone tomorrow so we'll know if we can get started on the sign-making.� The special regulation season is almost over.� I talked to another guy who was fishing the creek illegally the other day.� There are so many people who don't have�a clue.�

drhays · Veteran Member

I'm a member at the resort.� When I go up there are many members who know the regulations but just ignore them.� I always talk to them about the regs and how importent the wild trout populations is for the future of fishing on Putah Creek.� Some people think regulations apply to everyone else but them.� I wish that I could have a ticket book from DFG.� How can we get a DFG presence on the creek.� This creek is a tremendence resource and so close to the SF bay area.��

windknots · Senior Member

That's an interesting point about people fishing from the resort, if they are on resort grounds do the DFG regulations still apply to them?� If not what are the limits?�

Up near access 1 on Saturday I saw a very similar, nearly identical sign posted by NVFF, which I assume is Napa Valley Fly Fishers.� There may be someone over there to talk with that can give an idea of what they did, how many signs they put up, when, what was the cost, who was involved, and would they be interested in joining forces with this effort.� The sign was kind of difficult to see, but it did have an 888-xxx-xxxx tip number for reporting poachers.� If that is a good number I think it would more threatening for poachers to know that there was an easy way for anybody to rat them out at any time, rather than a "fully prosecuted if you're caught" phrase.� This way they're no longer looking over their shoulder for a ranger, they have to be looking out for anybody with a cell phone (even though I can never get any reception up there)

drhays · Veteran Member

The dfg regs apply on the resort waters.� A little known fact is that the resort actually own to mid-stream.� Let's be careful where we push.� I would hate to see the resort inforce its property rights.

windknots · Senior Member

I'm pretty sure that in CA as far as property rights and trespassing go they can only limit access to the high water mark on their side of the river.� Even if they owned both sides of the creek you would still have legal access to the river up to the high water mark, you just couldn't walk across their land to get to it without their permission.

If the fishing regs are posted and universally observed everyone benefits from the healthy fishery, I'd expect some cooperation in helping to keep their guests informed of the regulations, where cooperation means allowing some conspicuously posted signs in the store and encouraging their clients to abide by the regs.

Matt · Veteran Member

Actually, if Putah was considered "navigable" windknots would be correct, but since it is not DrHays has it right this time.
Matt

Please keep us posted about the signs, and keep up the good work.

-- Edited by Matt at 21:20, 2007-03-26

drhays · Veteran Member

The dfg regs apply on the resort waters.� A little known fact is that the resort actually own to mid-stream.� Let's be careful where we push.� I would hate to see the resort inforce its property rights.

Bonk · Member

Matt and Drhays,

You are not correct, Putah is considered "navigable". I have checked with both Fish and Game and local Sheriff. I kayak it from Monticello to Lake Solano very frequently.

The State owns to the high water mark, not the resort or any other private company/individual. From the CA.gov website:

"To the extent that waters are the common passageway for fish, although flowing over lands entirely subject to private ownership, they are deemed; for such purposes, public waters..." People v. Truckee Lumber Co., 116 Cal. 397, 401 (1897).

What are the purposes incident to navigation that accompany the navigational easement?

Clearly, they include boating, fishing, swimming, hunting and other recreational uses. Hitchings, supra, at 571. 55 Ops. Cal. Atty. Gen. at 298. They include the right to stand on the bottom while fishing or bathing, to anchor a boat, and to pole a boat. Bohn, supra, at 749-750. They include the right of portage around navigational obstructions (Restatement of Torts, Comment (d) to section 193.).
They also include launching and landing below the high-water mark.

We should all be glad that this law and a few other public laws are there. They are what allows all of us to fish most CA streams, as well as enjoy the incredible whitewater this state has to offer. It also unites both fisherman and kayakers to a single cause, to help preserve our rights to recreate on all waterways.

Matt wrote:

Actually, if Putah was considered "navigable" windknots would be correct, but since it is not DrHays has it right this time.
Matt

-- Edited by Bonk at 07:22, 2007-03-27

shon42073 · Senior Member

thanx for making that clear bonk,I was pretty sure that like other rivers you can access at any public place and stay at or below the high water mark, But I'm not sure it would be worth getting into a pissing match over, that small stretch dosen't look all that great anyways. I camped at solano lake this past weekend and saw at least 6 different people bait fishing, I'm sure they just didnt know the rules, after all there are no signs around, nothing listed in the rules they make you sign. I felt like saying "hey your wasting your time buddy, they havent planted lately and a wild trout ain't gonna hit that green lump of power bait"