Bobber fishing

grahler · Veteran Member

Bobber fishing

East Bay Ed · Senior Member

Do what you gotta do. I use strike indicators sometimes and sometimes I don't. Humm, wasn't there an Almond Joy commercial like that. I like indicators in deeper water.
Some web sites seem to show a decided preference for dry flies. I like nymphs, except during a hatch.
Now, I'll tell you what I don't like.
I don't like beating the water for hours with no results. I drive a long way for therepy and to catch fish.� I put on whatever gives me the best chance of enjoying a hook up. And if an indicator is needed, I use it.
East Bay Ed

enn zedd · Newbie

bobber-fishing ,,,, or indicator fishing, I seem have a harder time with ... well, I try to fish less indicator when I can. Top water fishing is most exciting for me, seeing the fish come out of the water or even just break the surface at my fly is about 60% of my "fish-on" rush. Fighting the fish and holding it is more like a bonus. I do indicator fish if there is no top action, which I guess is more often than not. I have caught more fish on the indicator than not but I am still a bit of a novice and always learning how to "read" the water where fish may be sitting so it is a bit of a confidence issue in indicator nymphing but then it also feels like I might as well have a plastic ball and a worm on my hook!

Psyfisher · Veteran Member

I'm with you on this one grahler. I understand the thinking behind fishing without an indicator, but as subtle as some takes can be, you have to wonder how many times a trout has given a nymph a gentle tap, and the fisherman on the other end has been none the wiser because he wasn't using an indicator. there has been so much literature cautioning against using them with nymphs, that I spent my first season trout fishing without an indicator. Early in my second season I found an article about tying your own indicators, and I tied up a few for fun. I immediately noticed I was hooking up with more fish when I used them. I was also able to get a better read on my drift, and I think it actually helps the less experienced fly fisherman with getting a natural drift. I will say one thing...most indicators are WAY too big. I could tie five of my indicators out of the material in one of the store bought kind. Also any color other than white doesn't make sense to me. A very small white yarn indicator looks so much like foam floating on the surface, I have seen it float right over entire pods of trout without them giving it so much as a look. I don't use my indicator to control the depth of my fly. That creates tension and an unnatural drift. Use a fly of the proper weight to control depth, and place the indicator far enough up the fly line it will float on its own. My indicators are so small that if there is any tension comming from the nymph, it pulls it right down. This works for me anyway. The way I see it, its the tension that differentiates indicator fishing from bobber fishing. It all boils down to the fact that you aren't creating tension in the line between the nymph and the indicator.

-- Edited by Psyfisher at 05:30, 2009-02-21

-- Edited by Psyfisher at 15:13, 2009-02-21

Nohackle · Senior Member

Denny Rickards ("Flyfishing Still Waters for Trophy Trout") is anti-indicator fishing.� He says plainly in one of his videos that indicator fishing is "not flyfishing".� On the other hand, there are many well-known flyfishermen such as Gary Borger and Brian Chan who advocate their use.� I started flyfishing over 30 years ago and back then people didn't use indicators.� Every year I would fish Silver Creek in Idaho and when I was forced to use nymphs due to a lack of rising fish, I woud always feel like my flies were just skimming the surface; I�knew the fish were down deep, but my flies were near the surface.� Consequently, I didn't do well with nymphs.� When I started using an indicator, I was able to start catching the bigger fish with consistency.�� With the indicator�I could get my flies down to the level of the fish very quickly.�

mx19 · Senior Member

Everyone likes what they like....Why do you think there are so many flavors of ice cream...

Neli · Member

So if I am using colored flyline, I must be cheating.� When my line deviates from a natural drift, I see that as an indication.� I guess I will have to switch to pure mono in order to be trully fly fishing.
I kind of look forward to the open season when the elitists can hate on the spinners and bait guys, rather than having the need to feed their egos with this lame controvercy.

-- Edited by Neli at 12:08, 2009-02-21

windknots · Senior Member

At one end of the line is something with a hook in it that is supposed to look and behave like something a trout likes to eat. The task is to get that thing in front of as many big hungry fish as possible at the right depth with the best possible drift and catch as many of them as you can. If that happens to require an indicator, then put one on. If you're better off tight lining or doing something else, then that's what you should do. No religion.

Tippit · Veteran Member

This thing we do...one might call it a religion. And not unlike religion, one does what feels is right. And also like religion, many are quick to damn a belief counter to one's own. IT'S FISHING. But really, if you are worried what someone else thinks about the way you fish, maybe the problem is insecurity.

drifter · Senior Member

those who chastise cators more than likely don't know how to fish them effectively. I don't by the "bobber" talk, most iv'e met who don't like to use them grew up in a generation where indicators were not prevalent. With that said, i have no problem with people ripping on other people's methods, fly-fishing is supposed to be fun, and me and some of my fly fishing buddies have a pretty good time finding ways to make fun of each others style.

A fish on the end of the line is much more sweet accompanied by a good laugh.

maodiver · Member

I find that I get the oddest looks when I indicator fish....with my little (smallest size I can find) red and white bobber, a la bait fishermen. Why deviate from what works? Yarn, foam, baloons, etc...it's a bobber...and it's OK

curmudgeon · Member

Really?� This is the "hot topic"?

URRGGGHHH!

-- Edited by curmudgeon at 18:54, 2009-02-23

Packrat · Senior Member

Denny Rickards is a tool!

I have met and talked with him at the fly fishing shows and seen his presentations. He is a condescending prick. He also mostly fishes private "stocked" trophy lakes like Sugar Creek Ranch.

Nohackle · Senior Member

Packrat, you're not the first person that I've heard make negative comments about Denny Rickards.� However, I have two of his videos and two of his books and there is no doubt that he knows how to catch big fish.� Also, I have had some success with his stillwater nymph and I prefer his seal bugger�over a typical woolly bugger.� So, even though I may or may not care for him as a person, I must say that I have learned a lot from him.

Packrat · Senior Member

Agreed that the seal bugger is a great fly, so are some of his other patterns. Seriously though, where does he do most of his still water fishing....trophy planted lakes.

fear no fish · Veteran Member

grahler wrote:

� Why do some folks think not using one is "cool?"� I have news for some folks out there--if you cannot dead drift an indicator you have no business even trying to fish without one� (strictly talking nymphing here)

Grahler-

What does this quote even mean.� Who fishes to look cool, you have got to be kidding me.� You really dont have to act like you know everything to impress people- "You have no busniess even trying to fish..."� last time I checked you have no busniess telling people how to fish or how not to fish.��Its not only about catching fish, if someone had to be told how they could fish and how they could not it would be no fun.� Someone trying to fish without an indicator has every right to do so and if they will do so poorly, do we not learn from our mistakes?� Why are you posting so negatively bro?� Can you please justify your quote?

-Fear No Fish

�

Nohackle · Senior Member

Packrat, I can understand why you feel the way you do.� Two things that may be worth pointing out though.� Denny Rickards wrote a book called "Fly Fishing the West's Best Trophy Lakes".� Even though he did this for profit, at least he was willing to share info about what lakes he thinks are trophy lakes and how to fish them.� Looking at the lakes he writes about, I don't think many of them are private waters.� Also, I met a guy who had fished with Denny for about a week.� He said that Denny really does target trophy trout and that he is willing to put in the effort to catch them.� This guy made the comment that after a couple of days he took a break from fishing with Denny because he had trouble keeping up with him.� This was about 10 years ago so I don't know if Rickards still puts in this kind of effort, but at least it sounded as if Denny was a legitimate trophy trout hunter.

mx19 · Senior Member

I didnt know we were having a tool sale today...

FlyMonkey · Member

Swing it baby. Nothing like having nothing between you and the fly.� More zen like to me.� I'd rather feel that tug than watch the bobber go under and then yank.

With that said, to each their own. I have no problem when people use them. In fact, most of the guys I fish with use em. It's all good.� Whatever floats their boat.

p.s. Denny Rickards knows his stuff and he certainly doesn't fish in only privately stocked lakes. That's crazy talk.

-- Edited by FlyMonkey at 11:20, 2009-02-27

grahler · Veteran Member

Fear no fish,

If you do not have the "skill" necessary to dead drift a fly under an indicator you should not consider yourself skilled enough to recognize when fishing without one might be to your advantage.
My post is self explanatory.

Tie the fly. Drift the fly. Catch the trout. Repeat.

P.S. What is busniess?

Flying Dutchman · Senior Member

mx19 wrote:

I didnt know we were having a tool sale today...

Guess this thread is now involved in a Spelling Bee, too... disbelief

Black Cloud · Senior Member

�� I made the offer to "Grahler the enlightened one" � � � � � � � � � � � � � �

�to put up or shut up in the past. At present he has done neither. As for the laughable assumption that Ralph Cutter is responsible for indicator bias, �he has probably forgotten more about fishing than the enlightened one will ever know.

James

New mantra-Tie the fly-Put on the bobber-Crank up the I-pod-Drift the fly-Eat a sandwich-Catch a trout-Repeat.

Did I miss anything?

-- Edited by Black Cloud at 17:49, 2009-03-01

shon42073 · Senior Member

Black Cloud wrote:
�� I made the offer to "Grahler the enlightened one" � � � � � � � � � � � � � �
�to put up or shut up in the past. At present he has done neither. As for the laughable assumption that Ralph Cutter is responsible for indicator bias, �he has probably forgotten more about fishing than the enlightened one will ever know.

James

Blackcloud, I think every crowd has one.

grahler · Veteran Member

Thank you folks for the personal attacks. I have not engaged in personal attacks in my previous posts, nor have I ever said I know more than anyone else. I have only respectfully expressed my point of view. I plan to continue my flyfishing efforts at Putah when I am able primarily using indicators because it is the technique which is most likely to succeed in catching quality wild fish.
If some folks choose not to use the tools which are available to them which can produce results-
I can only say good luck.

Tie the fly. Drift the fly. Catch the trout. Repeat.

Black Cloud · Senior Member

No one is attacking you, we're making fun of you because you are so full of yourself. "I have news for some folks out there--if you cannot dead drift an indicator, you have no business trying to fish without one" Quite respectful. This board has a�

lot of lively and sometimes heated discussions with the end result �being , hopefully, that we all take something �positive �from it , like making some new friends. That you are not doing.

James

fear no fish · Veteran Member

Very well put Black Cloud.

101fish · Senior Member

I find this debate interesting, as well as the idea that the anti-indicator movement is caused by one man, and that most indicator haters are poor fisherman. First off, many well known fly fisherman (Mel Krieger, Denny Richards, John Hazel etc) have at the least poked fun at indicator fishing. In some cases indicators are the best and only way to catch fish. Is this a pure as slinging a line without a huge ol hunk on it? Maybe maybe not. Also, many of the steelhead swing fisherman are not huge fans of indicator boys because they often can catch more fish with less effort and lack the 'commitment required' to truly fish. This may or may not be true.

Brian Chan, a proponent of indicator fishing focuses (and correct me if I am wrong) on midges in NW lakes, which typically require a slow, suspended presentation to catch (similar to midging at Crawley).

Finally, indicators are not the only way to fish subsurface. If you are going to fish subsurface, try expanding your repertoire to include techniques like tight lining and swinging. I personally find indicators to be the easiest way to fish below the surface. However, I have consistently catch fish with other methods. Not all people dislike indicators because they can't fish them either. Some of the best fisherman I know are not huge fans. Personally, they are a last resort for me, because it is 'bobber fishing', and just doesn't feel the same to fight a fish with a huge ol bobber draggin around on your line. Sometimes though, it is the only way to get the coon.

papaoak · Veteran Member

This debate or whatever it is amuses me. I gave a nymphing tip that will help new guys in the game if they practice it and grahler turns it into a whole damned if you don't thing. What a joke. Go fishing. Personally I find it more satisfying if I land fish without the aid of an indicator even if it means a zero. I catch enough fish not to sweat it if I don't on a day. Just as I would rather have a zero than foul fooking a fish too. Put a chicken on on your line if you want to good luck, you'll scare away the fish just like some of these indicators I've seen. Some times they are the size of a chicken. You have to admit it is funny when these guys come out with these huge indicators attached to their lines. Use what works for you. I do. I'll give you this. I do watch my line sometimes for a pause during a drift but 90% of the time I fish by feel. I tight line nymph and try to have my flies down on the bottom as it is not flat and I feel using an indicator keeps you off the bottom at times. Times when there is a depression and a fish is lying in it. I hope this helps. DON'T THINK SOMEONE IS NOT CATCHING FISH JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE AN INDICATOR ATTACHED TO THEIR LINE. YOU WOULD BE KOOKY IF YOU DID.

brian clemens · Senior Member

WOW, this is funny. Ill leave this one up to black cloud.

drifter · Senior Member

papaoak wrote:

�Put a chicken on on your line if you want to good luck, you'll scare away the fish just like some of these indicators I've seen. ............ DON'T THINK SOMEONE IS NOT CATCHING FISH JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE AN INDICATOR ATTACHED TO THEIR LINE. YOU WOULD BE KOOKY IF YOU DID.

DONT THINK SOMEONE IS NOT CATCHING THE BIG SMART FISH JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN INDICATOR ATTACHED TO THEIR LINE THE SIZE OF A CHICKEN (A baby chicken anyway)