I don't think so. I could see all the way across the creek from where I was at. There was nothing but large rocks in the area and the fish weren't exactly schooled up. They would come out from the other side of the creek and hold at the edge of the rocks in the faster water, then disappear for a while. I've been reading this board for a while and realize the need to stay away from the redds, so I am sure to stay away from anything the could possibly be one. I have seen a few in my travels along the creek, but I have yet to see fish spawning on rocks. Let me know if I'm mistaken.

I still after reading this feel that it was a very good chance that they were spawners.In most cases this time of year when that many big fish are in one location they are spawning and possibly not actively feeding but chasing each other off the redds.I have seen fish spawning around large rocks as long as there is gravel around among them.Bottom line though is I wasnt there to see for myself so I cannot be certain of what I didnt see.Anyway congrats on what sounds like a memorable outing!

ALL THE FISH IN THE SYSTEM ARE SPAWNING, THE ONLY FISH THAT ARE NOT SPAWNING ARE THE STOCKERS. I FISH LIKE YOU DO ,I STAY OFF THE BEDS AND LOOK WELL ABOVE AND BELOW FOR FEEDING FISH AND KEY ON THEM. IF I CAN'T SEE THEM I KEEP LOOKING, IF PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH FISHING FOR SPAWNERS I EXPECT NOT TO SEE THEM ON THE CREEK. ( BUT I STILL TRY TO EDUCATE THE FLOCK ABOUT RAKING HE BEDS).
      MOSES

-- Edited by THE BIG PIKER at 11:19, 2008-12-24

SK60-Thanks, I too enjoyed meeting you the other day. It seems the conversations you can have when you meet someone from this board at the creek are easier than some of those I have seen posted on the site. I was aware of the color change as it pertains to females, but not the males. I will keep this in mind. I appreciate any and all well intended advice. I have learned one thing for certain in all the years I have been fishing, and that is there is always more to learn.

This was the type of senario i would have loved to get a reply about. In my posting " Putah must knows".

YA BONO I TO AGREE ABOUT THE CLOSER5 . LIKE FROM OCT. 31 THUR JAN. 31 WOULD BE NICE BUT !! I THINK FOLKS WOULD BE PISST OFF , O WELL MOSES

-- Edited by THE BIG PIKER at 08:53, 2008-12-26

I am scanning this conversation and generally agree with the flow of it. I wouldn't support closing the fishery during the winter.

I do, however, support common sense fly fishing. Properly catching and releasing a "spawning" fish is something every one of us does if we fish the creek in the winter. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking, "Hey, I caught a non-spawning fish...therefore I'm more skilled than the next guy." That's kind of silly, in my opinion. (No offense meant toward anyone in specific.)

We all like the monster fish that come into the creek this time of year. I think we can be careful to ensure good stewardship while at the same time enjoying the art of angling in such a unique place.

Finally, let's keep our heads. Show a little grace to the "new guys" who don't realize what they are doing. A helpful word is good, but chewing someone out for not fishing exactly the way YOU think is best can be a little off-putting (even if you are correct). For the most part I think the community of fly fishers on the creek is cordial and friendly...with a few exceptions.

I've watched you all converse with one another online for several years now. I just thought it was time for me to, so to speak, wade into the water with you all. Merry Christmas and enjoy a Happy New Year. See you on the creek sometime...

Hey Shaun, yeah that was me.  I thought I recognized you from some of the photos you posted but I could tell you weren't feeling chatty so I made a point of not being too annoying.  I agree that not all of the fish are spawning right now, some are done and some haven't yet started.  But this isn't really the important issue that I see.  What is important is that this is about a 3 mile stretch of what should be a blue ribbon water and during spawning the brood stock is concentrated into very small stretches of prime spawning habitat.  These fish are highly visible, easily targeted and completely vulnerable because of their natural spawning behavior.  I saw about 20 fishermen over the course of the day and more than 80% of them were concentrated around the redds, and many guys seemed to have no qualms about casting directly into the red flags repeatedly, targeting the fish that were visibly holding over them.  On the plus side people weren't over playing the fish, and they handled them carefully and quickly released them and people seemed pretty good about avoiding stepping on the redds but this was not universal.  I still don't think that is good enough though, here's an abstract from the North American Journal of Fisheries Management that found that twice daily wading throughout development killed up to 96% of eggs and pre-emergent fry. 

http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1577%2F1548-8675%281992%29012%3C0450%3AEOAWOS%3E2.3.CO%3B2

I saw a couple of guys that were walking all over the red flags and they said that the fish hadn't been there for a couple weeks.  Brilliant, there are no fish there today so I guess that the thousands of eggs that were deposited must have picked themselves up and moved to a part of the stream that's less intrusive to angler wading.

Everyone is out there because they like catching fish, especially big beautiful colorful wild rainbow trout.  But what is going on out there right now is exploitation of the fish during a phase of their life cycle that is critical to the ongoing successful management of the creek and also a period when these fish are unusually vulnerable.  The techniques that people were using to catch these fish would never work during non-spawning periods.  Seriously, it was just an unending plunk plunk plunk plunk of sinkers, flies, and indicators right on their noses all day long in 12" deep water with no cover.  Casts are yanked across current and line slapped and yanked off the water repeatedly.  This is not exactly the skill & knowledge based pursuit that we'd like to imagine.  Yes the fish are big but seeing this first hand I gotta say those in-water trophy pics are hardly an accomplishment worth bragging about.  People may be using fly gear but I don't think it's what I would consider fly fishing, it's not like you're trying to imitate anything in particular.  I also don't see how people can distinguish between spawners and non-spawners once you get anywhere near a redd.  Bottom line is all of these fish have left their holding places and moved to these spawning areas for the spawning ritual. 

I don't advocate closing all winter, but I think that DFG should do for Putah what other fishery managers have done and that is to close for a couple of months during the most sensitive spawning periods.  These fish need to be protected during this time.

On a separate topic, heres another NAJFM abstract on the impact of hatchery fish and how eliminating stocking of catchable trout significantly improves the overall biomass and the population of trophy sized fish when also combined with slot limits. 

http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1577%2F1548-8659%281987%297%3C91%3AEOSCHR%3E2.0.CO%3B2

-- Edited by windknots at 11:46, 2008-12-27

Seldom have I ever seen a bait fisherman at Putah in the Winter.  Yes there are some but it's a very small number.  So they catch a couple of "large" fish for the frying pan and sneak off before they catch too much grief, or a ticket.  In the Summer months with high flows I'd venture to guess they catch a lot fewer "large" fish despite more anglers.

Along comes the low flows of Winter and here comes the fly slingers.  Sure there are some that hit the creek year round, but everyone here knows that fishing pressure goes through the roof when the flows drop.  Face it, the fish are either spawning, about to or just finished.  They are tired and beat up after laying their eggs in what suitable area they can find.  The flows are down and they are easy targets.  Even if a person isn't fishing an active redd they are still the same fish.

Just how much damage to the resourse do you think the "elite" flyfishermen do to the resource compared to the bait chuckers?   You fought them quickly, didn't drag them on the rocks or dirt, didn't pick them up with wet hands, didn't squeeze them to death, didn't hold them by the gills, didn't hold them out of water for "x" amount of time to get a photo or to measure them with marks on your rod, and honestly held them in the water "as long as it took" for them to swim off on their own.

I would have no problems with shutting down Putah in the Winter.

Putah isn't what it used to be folks.  As late as the early 90's it was nothing to go up there and have 40+ fish in a day with many well over 20".  I guess that makes me partly to blame for the decline as I used to fish Putah 3-5 times a week and I "Fought them quickly, didn't..........their own."

Unique to Putah, No.  The Yuba used to be an awesome fishery until everybody and their brother started fishing there by the late 90's.  Imagine landing over 100 fish a day, or the bite being off and only landing 30.  Not any more.  Give the LT some time, though distance and cold might save it.

I suppose we could just blame Al Gore.

Hello,

New member(avid reader) and this is going to throw this thread off topic even more and for that I apoligize (and as a new member I may be overstepping my bounds but I have to say something). I recently transferred to the Middletown area (USCG) from a 110' patrol boat in Alaska.

I have to agree with Lightfoot. Close down Putah in the winter and save some fish. Sucks but makes a lot of sense...for me at least. The reason I say this is because while I was stationed in Alaska, I had the opportunity to see first hand what over fishing can do. Everything from chasing away Japanese fisherman across the international line (because they have over fished their waters and Putah Creek puts out more fish on a bad day than their waters do in a week) to arresting poachers sneaking into the hatcheries to combat fisherman on the Russian River, Alaska. If you've never seen that, google Russian River Combat Fishing and you'll see hundreds and hundreds of tourist lining the waters trying to fight for a fish. I used to go during spring and fall because most tourists get chased off by the hungry Grizzlies (fortunately the tourists don't know those bears are there every day and are gentle enough to pet:) Now I understand this is a different situation. But the point I'm trying to make is that with all I've seen in a short span of 2 years in Alaska, I watched the fish counts drop dramatically. To the point that DFG shut down the Salmon season after 2 weeks because after just TWO weeks, fisherman had overfished the Salmon to a dangerous level...can you imagine what that does to the following years?

Shutting down an area to recreationalists for routine periods of time allows mother nature some much needed rest. Hence the reason National parks have max quotas, DFG imposes fish/game limits, etc. You can't fish an area for 50 years pulling countless fish every year and expect to take your grandchildren there in 20 years to that 'great' fishing spot.

I see active efforts of individuals trying to save Putah or save the fish but at the same time we complain about our favorite spot being closed off for a short amount of time for that very purpose (I'm just ask guilty as the next person).

Though using common sense would be a nice way to do things, unfortunately for the rest of us with common sense, the other 2/3rds have absolutely none. So the only option is to set down rules in a book of law. That is done for the the other 1/3rd. When that doesn't work we have officers, be it DFG, local pd, sheriff, chp, state and federal to try an filter out even more. The rest of the immoral bastards will get theirs one day but until then, the rest of us need to help those enforcers of law see whats going on. Being a maritime federal law enforcement officer, we depend GREATLY upon individuals outside of our networks.

Just my two cents:)

I'm not saying shame on everyone that loves the sport, challenge, or however you want to put it. It's one thing to do something with an utter disregard for the consequences to follow but the act of enjoying doing something and not realize the enviromental impact is a whole nother deal. We all have contributed in one way or another, whether it was dropping a gum wrapper or sneaking off with that monster catch you know you should have released for someone else to enjoy. The fact is that once you realize this, it's time to do something about it. Man has been polluting the world since his first fart and we are now realizing to much of something is detrimental to the Earth? Some people research alternative fuels while others start by picking up the trash first before researching ways to create more. But no matter what you decide, it's better to do something about it than nothing at all.

I used do outdoor guides (for free...I wish I knew back then I could actually make money doing it) and the one thing I always tell people about being lost is that no matter what you do, you have to do something. Because being lost isn't whether or not you know where you are, it's a state of mind. Doesn't matter if it's the right decision or the wrong decision, it's still something. One thing thats for sure is if you do nothing, you'll always lose. Take your 50/50 chance. If you make the right decision (build a fire, look for shelter, ration food, try to figure out where you are...) then your making progress. If you make the wrong decision (walk around aimlessly or eat all of your food at once), you'll know what the right decision was and now you have a direction. The important thing is that you make an active effort no matter which way.

Let Putah stay the way it is and lose or close it for a couple of months every year and see what happens. If that still doesn't work, may the best fisherman win.

 
I would also support a winter time closure for putah, Just because most of us fish it responsibly, doesnt mean everyone does. It is whats best for putah in the long run. I'm hoping this is probilly the last winter season its open I see too much abuse at putah during this time of year. It makes me pissed everytime I go out and I see other fly fishermen raping the redds, I can't handle seeing that anymore, and everytime I confront somebody about it they plead ignorance. Maybe we all can get something going to see that putah becomes off limits durring the winter time. Yes it will suck that we cant fish putah in the winter but there are other rivers, and you would have plenty of time to tie flies or find another hobby tell opening day. thats my 2 cents... peace.


- Nic

Actually, when individuals opinons are collected together and put before agencies in an orderly manner, they can influence policy as much as any lobbyist. You have to make the commitment to see it through.

shon42073 wrote:

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All I see are a bunch of opinions, Mine included. DFG dose not take opinions into consideration, They take hard scientific facts reported by there biologists when it comes to wildlife management.

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