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Post Info TOPIC: strike indicator?????
Tug


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strike indicator?????
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When does a strike indicator become just a bobber?  I have never used strike indicators and I have nothing against them but, I saw a guy today using  a bobber that was three inches long and one inch wide. It was such a bright pink, I can't even describe it. He was casting this thing up river and had no idea what his fly was doing under the water. The only thing he was concerned with was whether his bobber was going to go down or not.  I admit that I am in the minority when it comes to indicators.  I think that they are helpful to most people but I have never used them and I seem to catch my fair share of fish.
But, I was wondering whether this was actually fly fishing or just bobber fishing.  I think that the yarn indicators are okay.  I am not a purist but when I started fly fishing, no one used indicators and I never learned to use them. This bobber thing has me shaking my head.  Someone please explain this to me. What is the difference between the so called fly fishing floating indicators that are three inches long, and the red and white bobbers that we all used as kids?

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i think i saw the same guy

but i think fly fisherman using bobbers isnt any diferent than using string

preferance maybe...?

i dont know id use em if i didnt have the sticky ones you fold over yer line but they are rather big and obvious

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SCM


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Was the guy using a spinning rod or fly gear? I have seen people use spinning rods with a bobber/fly set-up. When using a spinning rod the bobber serves a few functions: depth control, strike indicator, and weight to cast the fly. When I was a kid I would drift woolly buggers under a clear, torpedo shaped bobber.

If the guy was using fly equipment he might have been working on his drifts. I know of two types of indicators (about 3-inche long sticks) that are designed to provide feedback on whether or not your getting a dead-drift and when to mend line.

I have ditched yarn indicators as of late. Its funny, but I have found it more enjoyable to fish by feel then going cross eyed staring at an indicator all day. I have been approaching Putah with more of a steelhead approach, no indicator, quartering down stream cast, big up-stream mend, and let it swing out. This helps cover a lot of water.

-- Edited by SCM at 20:47, 2007-12-17

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I told myself at the beginning of the 2007 fishing season that this year I'm going to try not using an indicator. It's been a great year. I think it makes you concentrate harder on what your fly is doing under water. Most of the fishing I'm doing anyway isn't long distance at all and it's easy to high stick, with the exception of the Yuba or Lower Sac, then I will use an indicator. I believe that an indicator no matter how well drifted will always add a certain amount of drag. It's such a cool feeling to actually feel the fish on your line instead of watching an indicator bob under.

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Tug


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He was using a fly rod. I understand why he is doing it, I just don't get whether or not this is really fly fishing. I'm right there with you on the feel thing. I concentrate on swimming my fly to where it needs to go rather than waiting for a bobber to go down. I probably don't catch as many fish as I could with an indicator but I feel like a fly fisherman and not a bobber fisherman. Like I said, I think yarn type indicators are okay because they indicate a strike and you are still paying attention to your fly. I told one guy that I gave up bobber fishing when I was a kid and he said "oh no, this is a strike indicator". I have fished with a fly and bobber set up with spinning gear and that is okay. But a bobber is still a bobber.
Maybe I'm just too old fashioned.

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Tug, indicator nymphing is fly fishing if you're using a fly rod... One could ask the same question about using egg patterns, lots of split shot or even heavily weighted flies... 

I don't have much experience, especially indicator nymphing, but I think I just find it boring and that's why I don't do it more... I would probably catch way more fish if I get better at it. But I can't help but think about all the drag (water on top is usually somewhat slower than below) and I can't believe the fish don't see the indicator or don't care, but I guess the advantages are more important. My favorite, when possible, is to use a dry fly as indicator. You don't need a big foam hopper... a small parachute mayfly work well with an emerger like an RS2 or a tiny midge nymph below. Sometimes I get more strikes on the "indicator" than on the dropper smile    Tight lines wink

-- Edited by Bugger at 23:53, 2007-12-17

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i use an indictor on slower deeper pieces of water, but i have never caught anything with this method. Personally i like high sticking or dry flies (since i'm 13 they are easy to see). I think the fish may feel the added weight of the indicator when they strike, so they let go even more quickly than they would with out one.

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Tug


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Like I said, I think fishing with indicators is fine but, is a three inch float really an indicator
or is it a bobber?

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JT


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That might just be a bobber.  I don't know how effective an indicator of that size would be.  Does it even budge when a fish takes the fly?

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The hits I have been getting have been pretty sutle, That bobber thing defenitly won't work. That thing must land with a big ol SPLAT !

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I may have seen the same guy several months ago.  He was using a 3-inch clear teardrop bobber.  I don't remember his rod or his line, but his reel looked like an antique and it was mounted facing UP (like a baitcasting reel).  He would cast it like a baitcasting rod, not as a fly rod.  I think that with a bobber that big any fish that would hit his fly would hook itself; the resistance of the bobber being pulled under would set the hook.  The day I saw him he said he had caught two fish, one of which was 15 or 16 inches.

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I agree with Daara.  High stickin til I die.  Deep water, especially skinny water, it's so effective.  Or dries but I hate little ones.  Give me fatty stone or hopper pattern that you can hear hit the water like an overweight turkey.  Tug is right, the fisherman who doesn't understand what his fly and weight are doing underwater is one dimensional.  Watching the indicator is a small part of it.

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Packrat, California FF ran an article by Andy Burk describing different types of direct-contact fly fishing (June, '06). I, too, took up the challenge this last year, with more short line or soft hackles/swing. Instead of complacently watching the indicator, I now have a better feel for the under water presentation. I agree--there's no beating the thrill of a direct-contact take!

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Exactly! I have a subscription and know the article you mentioned. I also saw Andy speak at last years fly fishing show in Pleasanton about Czech nymphing. Direct contact is the way to go!

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High sticking is by far my favorite way to fish, Maybe dries are a little funner. I should try it more often on putah, It's the way i usually fish the sierra rivers and streams. I normally use just one fly when i high stick, I was curious if thats the norm, It just feels more natural for me. I like high stickin because its good to be able to feel the fish hit and fishing by feel is the way i've always fished various other methods, It took time for me to get used to fishing with an indicator were its all about fishing with yours eyes. I've been thinking about purchasing a 2 weight rod for high stickin small mountain waters, Probably 7 or 7 1/2 footer.

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I've thought about that too Captain. I'm thinking a 3 weight with a bit more length though.

I've only tried czech nymphing/high-sticking, or seen it done in bumpy shallow, knee to waist deep, water that is moving along at a pretty good clip. Does anyone have any experience using direct contact in slower moving deeper water?

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Cliff


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Shortly after Zmas I am buying a ten footer for high stickin.  Did I say Zmas, sorry still drooling over those Zaxis rods.  Anyheeww I started pondering the virtues of a ten footer.  It's hard to find a 6 weight without a fighting butt that's ten feet long.  Looks like I am going with the 5 WT.  St. Croix legend Ultra.  It's green and I can't resist.  On those windy Putah days when you're trying to hammer roll casts it may help also.  Big water, big stick.  I can always over line it with my #6 line and favorite reel.


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Tug


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Since Cole had such a great quote in another thread, I thought I'd put one out that relates
to this one.

Cast from the Past

An indicator is a mechanical,strictly visual device. One can be
hypnotized by the floating bit and lose the other senses that are
so neccesary for nymphing success...... use strike indicators
as and aid to nymphing, but don't let them become a crutch.

Joe Humphreys in 1992




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That should be a sweet rod Cole. I don't know why but I'm not interested in using a rod over 8'6" Maybe its a mental condition biggrin. I think it comes from many years of spin fishing and baitcasting gear. I know a longer rod is easier to use in pretty much every way. But i like the short rods. I do the same as emerger mentioned, I tend to high stick in shallower water with good current flow were i can wade to within a few feet of my desired hole.



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I guess my eyesight is going so I use the little foam stickies as a guide to where the drift is going. I could feel the fish and so far they've been taking it hard. I've seen the indicateor bobble too but haven't got a fish that way.

I tried one of those bushy nylon ones with a loop. I don't like them, they have too much resistance when throwing the line and soak up water.

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I have been thinking of trying those foam stick on indicators. I use poly yarn now, sometimes with floatant on it, I do beleive most people use way to a large indicators. You gotta trim em down really small, then you use one for a long time and it gets all dirty and stuff, Thats when it works it's best. I also think maybe you wanna change indicators if you are having no luck, a different color or something. Small things like that make a difference on a highly pressured water like putah.

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You should try a Rio Nymph line, it comes with the last few inches colored flourescent orange, has a welded loop on the end and floats better than most lines I've tried. The newer SA lines also have the welded loop and better floatability.

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