fishing with shot ???

shon42073 · Senior Member

fishing with shot ???

edog7 · Veteran Member

�� Captain-� I would use the 6wt if I were casting weight it is a lot easier.

�� Edog

ChucktheDuck · Senior Member

Hey Captain,
I'm no old pro myself but I know a lot of people recommend at least with a nymph rig that you use a sort of lob or roll cast rather than doing the standard 10-1 fly fishing cast. For putah or when nymphing anywhere I usually don't make a back cast unless it is absolutely necessary (it seldom is). Instead I let my line and rig straighten out at the end of a drift and then use the surface tension of the line on the water to load the rod as I swing it in an arc up over my head lobbing the line and flies upstream from me. I have heard some people refer to this as a steeple cast. It pretty much eliminates tangles and if you treat the cast just like a regular forward cast you'll find that it works pretty much the same, if not better for the weighted rigs. If I want to position my rig further out in the stream I'll quickly follow up with one or two roll casts to add some distance, then continue my drift as usual. Other than that a longer, faster action rod will definitely help hold the weight a little better and with mending/controlling line during your drift. I struggle with an 8'6" rod and I am considering moving up to a 5 or 6 weight 9'6" fast action nymphing rig. hope this helps
Charlie

mx19 · Senior Member

what works for me...I use a med action 6wt 9ft sage...there is nothing fast action about roll casting...Its about as slow it gets...some folks like a stiffer faster rod to help fling there long leader and shot..your roll cast should be delicate..if you fling it, it will spash and that scares fish...
at putah you roll cast 90% of the time .if you fish putah and other small waters then you should get a rod that focues on that style...when flows are 600 and up I use a 9.5 6wt cause my leader is over 10 ft and my shot size gose up to 2 AAA...when my leader is under 9ft I drop down to a 9ft rod...when flows get really low I use a 4 wt but still stay with a 9ft...the longer the rod the easier it is to roll cast...If your looking for a free class on casting call sweeneys in napa ...if you want on the water lesson I sure bono would love to help....I dont know if thats helps ,but Im self taught and had a few friendly lesson back in my day... happy fishing
mx 19

SCM · Senior Member

I have been working two rods on Putah this summer: 1) 7-6" 4-weight split cane bamboo - medium action; and 2) 9' 5-weight fast-plus action. So far I have found the medium action rod lobs and roll casts with shot very smoothly and with good distance. However, mending line with such a short rod is a pain in the butt. The fast-plus action 9-footer doesn't roll cast or lob weighted nymph rigs all that well, but it is very easy to mend line. If I were to buy another rod to use on Putah it would likely be a 9-foot, medium action.

JT · Senior Member

On Putah I use a medium action Scott 9ft 5wt.� My leader is usually over 10 ft long.� When changing depths all the time I like the flexibility that the longer leader provides.� The medium action rod roll casts lots of weight well.� I have used my medium-fast action Scott 9ft 6wt a few times as well.� Once I got used to the faster action I was able to roll cast almost across the whole creek (with lots of weight).� I don't like the feel when I have a fish on, though, so I use the 5wt much more.� If you want to get�the feel of roll casting with an indicator and weight�go out to a lake with your�nymphing rig and just practice casting.� It's all about technique.��

ChucktheDuck · Senior Member

So do you guys think a med action would be a better choice for a nymph rig? I have to be honest I was thinking more about distance on the cast than delicacy, theres the novice styles for ya! I'm also getting a new rod pretty soon and I will be investing top dollar this time so I don't want to get something that turns out to be the wrong choice. Luckily I know the guys over at American fly pretty well and they are willing to spend a lot of time with me playing around with rods!!

SCM · Senior Member

I don't know if delicacy is all that important at Putah during the summer (winter may be a different story), especially working nymphs in the fast riffles and rock seams. Alternatively, you probably would want a light touch roll casting drys or nymphs along the bank cuts in slower water. As JT commented technique is key. Ultimately, I think you can achieve both distance and touch with a good rod and practice. I assume JT is probably using a Scott G series rod. I have heard nothing but great things about the Scott G series, especially in the trout weights.

One thing that frustrated me when testing rods was the fact most places have you false casting in a parking lot or on lawn. You can't really appreciate a rod's rolling casting characteristics without water tension. I bought my fast-plus rod based on how it felt false casting. My rod slings really tight loops and generates terrific distance, but (in my opinion) underperforms in roll casting/water hauling nymph rigs. If possible, perhaps you could rent a demo rod for a day on the water.

Here is a link to a 5-weight rod shoot-out, it might help you create a list of rods to test:

http://www.yellowstoneangler.com/FlyRodComparisonAlbrightG.LoomisOrvisSageScottTempleForkThomasThomasTomMorganRodsmithsR.L.Winstonrodtesting.asp

-- Edited by SCM at 11:29, 2007-09-08

windknots · Senior Member

To add to all the great information about rod selection I'd also offer that unless you are using a rod that's intended for use in one extreme or another you can be successful casting shot with just about any reasonable rod at just about any price point. The most important aspect is properly loading the rod by using the current and timing your forward cast such that you get a good "sling shot" action as the rig lifts out of the water, the energy that is stored in the flexed rod combined with the energy you impart as you bring the rod forward will launch your rig with a surprising amount of energy, and truth is you usually don't have to cast all that far. I nice rod is more pleasing to work with, but I'd wager that if you put an economical but decent rod in the hands of a skillful fly fisherman they'd pretty much still hook as many fish as he or she would have otherwise. Technique and knowledge are more important than the rod itself. I think one more aspect that hasn't been stated is that it matters a great deal where you are standing, you have to be positioned for casting to some place where you can get a good drift for a lifelike presentation as well as properly load the rod for the next cast at the end of the drift.

I'd be the last person to try to talk someone out of buying a nice piece of equipment though, but I do think that technique and knowledge outweigh the specifics of rod selection when it comes to fly fishing. This is meant to be encouragement to grab your rod and head for your favorite holes with a little more confidence in the gear you already have.

cole · Senior Member

A technique I recently read about is called bounce nymphing.� Havent tried it yet but they say weedy bottoms and large boulders are the places to try it.� Sounds like Putah to me.� You actually rig your weights at the bottom of a very long piece of thin mono with your two droppers above the weights.� This keeps your flies suspended just off the bottom.

flygirl1 · Veteran Member

I have also read about bounce nymphing and think I will try it at Putah. The article I read said that on weedy, mossy bottoms with big rocks to use small split shot, a piece of lead-core line, soft weights or twist-on lead strips. I guess tungsten putty might work too. All new to me so I think I will give the multiple small shot a try.

I use a Sage Z-Axix 6 wt 9'6" rod and have been happy with it, although haven't had a chance to overhead cast or dry fly much. Also have the same rod in a 5wt 9' and find the 6wt easier for me to roll cast. I am still working on touch...tend to try to muscle it too much.

cole · Senior Member

Out of my two Sage the six is the faster rod.� Lately I haven't touched the 5 weight much.� The other one has helped in the wind tons.� Trying to figure out which I am going to take out this evening.� The five is the older rod with way more trips and fish on it.� A Little sentimental to me. The first fish I landed on the six however was 16" at Putah so that's gotta have a little mojo too. biggrin

SCM · Senior Member

I tried the bounce nymphing method on Putah earlier this summer. I was drawn to this method since I thought havig the weight below the flies was good idea. Unfortuantely I snagged quite a bit, which was frustrating and made me hesitant to bottom scrape. However, I am now learning that fishing the bottom and snagging are how its done.

Based on trial and error, I have two suggestions about this method of nymphing: 1) pinch the shot just enough to hold it in place (allow it to slide on the line a little). When you snag (usually at the weight) it allows the leader to slide through the shot leaving you to at least salvage your flies. If the shot is set to tight I found the leader popped at the dropper segment knot; and 2) make sure the droppers a properly spaced and on tippet of appropriate length. If not done correctly your flies constantly contact each other and knot up in a mess. I had this problem on almost every drift.

I have some unused hand-tied dropper leaders if anyone wants to give the bounce nymphing method a try. They are 9ft - 4x. I don't plan on using them since I mainly use 5x - 6x tippet. Send me a PM with your address and I can mail a�package to you.

-- Edited by SCM at 11:27, 2007-09-09

bobcb · Member

Just to add some variety to the types of rods used, my favorite for nymphng is a 4-5 wt 12 ft rod. It was built for me by Randy Johnson, who made his name up on the Truckee River and sells more flies than anyone else at the Mountain Hardware store in Truckee, the best store on the planet. With this rod, roll casting is very easy and using the water surface tension it is possible to cast a long way upstream and mend the line easily too. I've found that with practice I can use this rod on Putah Creek, although it's not very easy to take through the overhanging trees.

SCM · Senior Member

Wow, a 12-foot rod! Where can you find a blank that length in a 4/5 weight? I have seen spey rod blanks up to 15-feet in much heavier weights. Mtn. Hardware definitely has a solid fly section. Unfortunately, I haven't made it to the Truckee in a long time. Last time I fished the Truckee (circa 1998) was with Frank Pichiotta (sp?).

Speaking of fishing with shot, does anyone have a recommendation on a non-toxic alternative to lead?�

-- Edited by SCM at 23:00, 2007-09-12

-- Edited by SCM at 23:13, 2007-09-12

-- Edited by SCM at 23:12, 2007-09-12

keith bigelow · Webmaster

Most shot sold these days is Non-toxic lead alternatives.

Here's the Orvis version.

http://www.orvis.com/store/product_choice.asp?pf_id=196B&dir_id=758&group_id=792&cat_id=7890&subcat_id=6022

shon42073 · Senior Member

A 12 footer, That must be a real pain in the butt when your bushwackin, My 8 foot rod can be hard to keep out of the brush in some of the spots I fish, especially the berry bushes. I tryed both my very fast action 6 weight and then used my 4 weight medium action this past weekend, and I preffere the 4 weight medium action, A 6 weight is just to big and heavey for me, its like using a freakin surf rod, I had not used it in so long I kinda forgot how big and heavey it is. I also like medium action much better when it comes to fighting a fish,�I have alot more feel for whats going on then with the faster action rod.�The rod I'v been using is a thomas & thomas lps series.

-- Edited by thecaptain at 18:24, 2007-09-13